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rogueslayer452Supernatural 6.08 "All Dogs Go To Heaven"
Reluctantly working for Crowley as he proposes a job for them to find an Alpha on their next case, the Winchesters discover a brash link of dead bodies with missing hearts, believed to be werewolf attacks. However the more they investigate it turns out that it isn't werewolves at all, but Skinwalkers, with their forms shaped into a dog. The one in particular, named Lucky, is captured by the boys and getting information about his "pack leader" which, incidentally, is the Alpha Skinwalker. Lucky tells the plans the Alpha has for all in the pack that they will turn their "families" at the same time, creating more Skinwalkers. They get Lucky to help them so they can take out the Alpha Skinwalker, though it turns into an all out gun and dogfight (literally) which results to Lucky getting injured, but the Alpha is dead.
Lucky returns back to the streets, hopefully to find himself another home, and Dean and Sam finally talk about Sam's deal which Sam admits that he isn't really Sam anymore. He doesn't give a shit about anything, and he feels better without that, but would like to be the old Sam again. The episode was overall kind of okay, nothing really new but the story was sort of sad.
Sam Winchester And His Soulless Confessional
Apparently Sam admitted that he really isn't Sam anymore, at least the Sam Winchester we once knew him to be. Which honestly we kind of already got that once the entire "no soul" thing was revealed, because honestly without a soul how can you be who you once were?
What's interesting about his confession though is that he probably wouldn't have said this had Dean not confronted him about it, like before. Dean knew that Sam was pretending to be still Sam and he had enough of dancing around the real issue, and Sam being caught red-handed yet again decided that he should just confirm that by confessing to it. I find it interesting what he says though, that he feels like Sam because of his memories and knowledge, but it really isn't him. This has me confused on what a soul particular means in this universe and what it translates to when someone is without their soul. This show really hasn't given any concrete groundwork for that aspect of the mythos at all, which is really bugging me. At least the show has acknowledged the confusion over it, but you'd think after six seasons there would be something to go on.
Another thing I'd like to address is Sam admitting that he just didn't give a shit about anything or anyone, and openly admitted that he'd done horrible and terrible things like killing innocents during hunts, and he just doesn't care. Being an efficient skilled hunter at the price of empathy and his own humanity of his soul, which he also admits that he probably thought about not wanting his soul back because he wants to stay like that. The fact it hurts with all the moralizing he used to do. I'll be honest, even though I do want Sammy back I kinda like this version of Sam; less with the bitching, emoing, throwing temper tantrums and having a chip on his shoulder and more of him just being an efficient hunter and getting shit done. I guess it goes back to the "reversal" aspect this season apparently is going for, he's acting more like Dean from the earlier seasons (except without the soulless part), and I think Jared is doing great since he plays this part rather well.
However, I still don't trust him.
Sam has openly lied to Dean many times since this season began, and has only admitted to the truth after getting caught or being confronted by his brother. It's like what Crowley said, this Sam would definitely sell his brother out for a dollar just for a soda if he wanted to, and there are times during this season where I honestly think Sam wanted to. Also, it got me to thinking that it's because of Sam's influence that has fucked Dean up during this last year because of his "not giving a flying fuck" about anything. How are we supposed to trust him now because of all this? Just because he's told the truth doesn't mean he won't lie again or do something else, since obviously he has other motives. He could say one thing but do another.
Someone mentioned that even without a soul, this version of Sam has been building over the seasons for some time, and I agree. Sam has been losing his sense of morality for a long time, and him without a soul completes it. What will happen once he gets his soul back? That is the biggest question.
Dean Winchester: Stop Moping And Grow A Pair
One of the biggest annoyances I had with this episode was they paralleling Lucky's issues to Dean's, because honestly I am sick and tired of them going back to that domesticated life nonsense. It didn't sense before and it still doesn't make sense now.
From a continuity standpoint I understand why it had to be included, however I thought we had been over this already? Dean needs to start manning himself up and stop dwelling over something he can't do anything about. Lisa doesn't want him around anymore, he knows that he endangers them every single time he's around them because like everything Winchester-related danger follows them around like tails on a dog, it is just inevitable, and he admitted to it deep down during the truth spell incident. So why is he continuing this emo bullshit still? It's an attachment of sorts, I get that, even though there's hardly any ties between them other than living with them for a year, I guess I just don't understand why the show needs to bring Lisa and Ben up constantly. Twice already this episode had Dean looking at his phone and Sam mentioning their names at the end when he simply could have just said he didn't care about anything or anyone, including his own brother.
I love Dean Winchester, I really really do. He's my second favorite character next to Castiel. However I don't like his character direction this season or why there even needed to be a domesticated storyline for him anyway, let alone a year time-jump; for the surprise of his brother being back I can get, but I feel like they needed to have Dean not be his hunter self and all this domesticated bullshit and I just, no. Sorry, that doesn't compute.
Unless the show is deliberately trying to say that Dean is more fucked up than ever before because of the less-than-smart choices he's made, I just don't really see the point. It's a wasted storyline when there could be other interesting factors added to it.
Dean? I love you and always will, but fucking get over it. Or more specifically, Sera Gamble? Fuck you for not even caring about his characterization one bit when creating this scenario. >:|
Yes, I am rather opinionated on the subject, and I know that some people have enjoyed seeing domesticated!Dean and I would too if the entire situation wasn't so randomly placed and without much development on either side, and that it actually made sense which this does not. I want Dean to be happy, but it has to be a life that he wants to live for himself without the entire thing being a falsehood, which is what the last year has been for him. A life based on a promise he made which isn't what he really truly wanted. Which seems to be a common theme for certain characters, and I'll get to that later. But yeah. I just hate the entire thing and I wish that they would have Dean just move on and stop with the melodramatics because that shit just is boring me to tears, and it's also an insult to his character, imo.
Memorable Moments of the Episode
++ CROWLEY BEING A SEXY BITCH, AS USUAL. ♥
The entire conversation in the food market of the restaurant was spectacularly done. I think it's because I love seeing Crowley, Dean and Sam sitting together at a fast food joint talking business. And Crowley sitting backwards on a chair? Awesome. Everything about that scene was very awesome. It still places questions about the limitations of Crowley's abilities now with his King of Hell status, and whether he really truly does have Sam's soul (I say he doesn't, but we'll see), but seeing the boils effect was nifty. Still wished we saw more of Crowley though, especially what he had to say after the events of the hunt and why they didn't deliver to him. But seeing Mark Sheppard is always a win in my books. Just needed some Castiel, that's all. ;p
++ Dean, stop being a hypocrite. You worked with demons before, hell you worked with Crowley himself before. Remember, last season? While this might be under different circumstances, you were his pawn then and you are now, so stop acting like this is a blasphemous thing to do.
++ Jared was surprisingly good in this episode. Again I'm not normally a fan of Sam, and Jared's acting can be questionable at times, but he was rather good here. I think I prefer him with the vacant snarking than the emotional puppying/hilarious raeg!face he does most of the time.
++ Boy still needs a serious haircut and to shave those hideous sideburns though. Just saying. *kanye!shrug*
++ Again, the emotionless snark was perfection. Jared really gets into this role of soulless!Sam really well, and this episode kind of shows how much fun he has with it.
++ The entire time with the Skinwalker stuff I kept thinking....Sam Merlotte? I mean seriously, I know I am not the only one who thought that.
++ Sniper!Dean was definitely awesome. This isn't the first time we've seen him with a sniper rifle, I remember in the earlier seasons he handled one. But it's been a long time since then and seeing him, up high targeting on someone was definitely one of the highlights of the episode for me. But you know what's even better than sniper!Dean on the roof? Sniper!Dean + handgun:
Double the gun!porn = me likey. ♥
++ I was legitimately sad seeing this scene:
While the entire concept of the Skinwalkers taking on "families" only to turn them to have more in the pack was creepy enough, especially with seeing Lucky earlier in the episode kind of watching the woman as a dog in a stalker-ish manner and killing her boyfriend, I was legitimately sad for him by the very end. It's an unfortunate heartbreaking story, and I think what got me was that very last scene with him and the woman. I mean, honestly, she was in the right for being angry and slamming the door in his face, but I think it's just him knowing she would do that be apologizing and thanking her anyway that really got to me. Like he felt the need to have it be said without her knowing the entire story, or even accepting his words. He just needed to say them out loud for her to hear to he could move on with himself. And seeing him turning back into a dog and wandering off was also heartbreaking....I thought he would have committed suicide by getting hit by a car or something, but I'm glad he didn't. I like that he's off into the world now. It's a bittersweet ending for him, which I liked.
++ Something was missing though.....
Overall: It was an okay episode, not the best and it certainly was more filler than anything, but it was one of those episodes that could have been boring had it not gone the way it did. I think they did good with handling the Skinwalker concept and the Lucky story, I felt that was the most genuine thing to come out from this episode was his story. Crowley continues to be entertaining, Dean continues to be a dick and dwelling over stupid shit, Sam also continues to entertain me with his soulless snarky humor, and of course he wants to become the other Sam which I hope we get more answers soon regarding the whole soul situation because I am lost on what it still means. Either way, I thought this was a good episode considering how it could have gone.
Also, is it just me or have the episode titles for this show this season kind of risen to ridiculous levels? Between these, the official show score song titles and the new promos they have out now (you know, the over-photoshopped and airbrushed AU!promo), I somehow feel like it's become a parody of itself. I don't mind that the show is finally getting more publicity and all but, idk. It feels rather weird to me.
Anyone remember these promotional photoshoots from like the earlier seasons, or even this fantastic S1 promo? Whatever happened to having those, huh? Variety CW, we need some.
Reluctantly working for Crowley as he proposes a job for them to find an Alpha on their next case, the Winchesters discover a brash link of dead bodies with missing hearts, believed to be werewolf attacks. However the more they investigate it turns out that it isn't werewolves at all, but Skinwalkers, with their forms shaped into a dog. The one in particular, named Lucky, is captured by the boys and getting information about his "pack leader" which, incidentally, is the Alpha Skinwalker. Lucky tells the plans the Alpha has for all in the pack that they will turn their "families" at the same time, creating more Skinwalkers. They get Lucky to help them so they can take out the Alpha Skinwalker, though it turns into an all out gun and dogfight (literally) which results to Lucky getting injured, but the Alpha is dead.
Lucky returns back to the streets, hopefully to find himself another home, and Dean and Sam finally talk about Sam's deal which Sam admits that he isn't really Sam anymore. He doesn't give a shit about anything, and he feels better without that, but would like to be the old Sam again. The episode was overall kind of okay, nothing really new but the story was sort of sad.
Sam Winchester And His Soulless Confessional
Apparently Sam admitted that he really isn't Sam anymore, at least the Sam Winchester we once knew him to be. Which honestly we kind of already got that once the entire "no soul" thing was revealed, because honestly without a soul how can you be who you once were?
What's interesting about his confession though is that he probably wouldn't have said this had Dean not confronted him about it, like before. Dean knew that Sam was pretending to be still Sam and he had enough of dancing around the real issue, and Sam being caught red-handed yet again decided that he should just confirm that by confessing to it. I find it interesting what he says though, that he feels like Sam because of his memories and knowledge, but it really isn't him. This has me confused on what a soul particular means in this universe and what it translates to when someone is without their soul. This show really hasn't given any concrete groundwork for that aspect of the mythos at all, which is really bugging me. At least the show has acknowledged the confusion over it, but you'd think after six seasons there would be something to go on.
Another thing I'd like to address is Sam admitting that he just didn't give a shit about anything or anyone, and openly admitted that he'd done horrible and terrible things like killing innocents during hunts, and he just doesn't care. Being an efficient skilled hunter at the price of empathy and his own humanity of his soul, which he also admits that he probably thought about not wanting his soul back because he wants to stay like that. The fact it hurts with all the moralizing he used to do. I'll be honest, even though I do want Sammy back I kinda like this version of Sam; less with the bitching, emoing, throwing temper tantrums and having a chip on his shoulder and more of him just being an efficient hunter and getting shit done. I guess it goes back to the "reversal" aspect this season apparently is going for, he's acting more like Dean from the earlier seasons (except without the soulless part), and I think Jared is doing great since he plays this part rather well.
However, I still don't trust him.
Sam has openly lied to Dean many times since this season began, and has only admitted to the truth after getting caught or being confronted by his brother. It's like what Crowley said, this Sam would definitely sell his brother out for a dollar just for a soda if he wanted to, and there are times during this season where I honestly think Sam wanted to. Also, it got me to thinking that it's because of Sam's influence that has fucked Dean up during this last year because of his "not giving a flying fuck" about anything. How are we supposed to trust him now because of all this? Just because he's told the truth doesn't mean he won't lie again or do something else, since obviously he has other motives. He could say one thing but do another.
Someone mentioned that even without a soul, this version of Sam has been building over the seasons for some time, and I agree. Sam has been losing his sense of morality for a long time, and him without a soul completes it. What will happen once he gets his soul back? That is the biggest question.
Dean Winchester: Stop Moping And Grow A Pair
One of the biggest annoyances I had with this episode was they paralleling Lucky's issues to Dean's, because honestly I am sick and tired of them going back to that domesticated life nonsense. It didn't sense before and it still doesn't make sense now.
From a continuity standpoint I understand why it had to be included, however I thought we had been over this already? Dean needs to start manning himself up and stop dwelling over something he can't do anything about. Lisa doesn't want him around anymore, he knows that he endangers them every single time he's around them because like everything Winchester-related danger follows them around like tails on a dog, it is just inevitable, and he admitted to it deep down during the truth spell incident. So why is he continuing this emo bullshit still? It's an attachment of sorts, I get that, even though there's hardly any ties between them other than living with them for a year, I guess I just don't understand why the show needs to bring Lisa and Ben up constantly. Twice already this episode had Dean looking at his phone and Sam mentioning their names at the end when he simply could have just said he didn't care about anything or anyone, including his own brother.
I love Dean Winchester, I really really do. He's my second favorite character next to Castiel. However I don't like his character direction this season or why there even needed to be a domesticated storyline for him anyway, let alone a year time-jump; for the surprise of his brother being back I can get, but I feel like they needed to have Dean not be his hunter self and all this domesticated bullshit and I just, no. Sorry, that doesn't compute.
Unless the show is deliberately trying to say that Dean is more fucked up than ever before because of the less-than-smart choices he's made, I just don't really see the point. It's a wasted storyline when there could be other interesting factors added to it.
Dean? I love you and always will, but fucking get over it. Or more specifically, Sera Gamble? Fuck you for not even caring about his characterization one bit when creating this scenario. >:|
Yes, I am rather opinionated on the subject, and I know that some people have enjoyed seeing domesticated!Dean and I would too if the entire situation wasn't so randomly placed and without much development on either side, and that it actually made sense which this does not. I want Dean to be happy, but it has to be a life that he wants to live for himself without the entire thing being a falsehood, which is what the last year has been for him. A life based on a promise he made which isn't what he really truly wanted. Which seems to be a common theme for certain characters, and I'll get to that later. But yeah. I just hate the entire thing and I wish that they would have Dean just move on and stop with the melodramatics because that shit just is boring me to tears, and it's also an insult to his character, imo.
Memorable Moments of the Episode
++ CROWLEY BEING A SEXY BITCH, AS USUAL. ♥
The entire conversation in the food market of the restaurant was spectacularly done. I think it's because I love seeing Crowley, Dean and Sam sitting together at a fast food joint talking business. And Crowley sitting backwards on a chair? Awesome. Everything about that scene was very awesome. It still places questions about the limitations of Crowley's abilities now with his King of Hell status, and whether he really truly does have Sam's soul (I say he doesn't, but we'll see), but seeing the boils effect was nifty. Still wished we saw more of Crowley though, especially what he had to say after the events of the hunt and why they didn't deliver to him. But seeing Mark Sheppard is always a win in my books. Just needed some Castiel, that's all. ;p
++ Dean, stop being a hypocrite. You worked with demons before, hell you worked with Crowley himself before. Remember, last season? While this might be under different circumstances, you were his pawn then and you are now, so stop acting like this is a blasphemous thing to do.
++ Jared was surprisingly good in this episode. Again I'm not normally a fan of Sam, and Jared's acting can be questionable at times, but he was rather good here. I think I prefer him with the vacant snarking than the emotional puppying/hilarious raeg!face he does most of the time.
++ Boy still needs a serious haircut and to shave those hideous sideburns though. Just saying. *kanye!shrug*
++ Again, the emotionless snark was perfection. Jared really gets into this role of soulless!Sam really well, and this episode kind of shows how much fun he has with it.
++ The entire time with the Skinwalker stuff I kept thinking....Sam Merlotte? I mean seriously, I know I am not the only one who thought that.
++ Sniper!Dean was definitely awesome. This isn't the first time we've seen him with a sniper rifle, I remember in the earlier seasons he handled one. But it's been a long time since then and seeing him, up high targeting on someone was definitely one of the highlights of the episode for me. But you know what's even better than sniper!Dean on the roof? Sniper!Dean + handgun:
Double the gun!porn = me likey. ♥
++ I was legitimately sad seeing this scene:
While the entire concept of the Skinwalkers taking on "families" only to turn them to have more in the pack was creepy enough, especially with seeing Lucky earlier in the episode kind of watching the woman as a dog in a stalker-ish manner and killing her boyfriend, I was legitimately sad for him by the very end. It's an unfortunate heartbreaking story, and I think what got me was that very last scene with him and the woman. I mean, honestly, she was in the right for being angry and slamming the door in his face, but I think it's just him knowing she would do that be apologizing and thanking her anyway that really got to me. Like he felt the need to have it be said without her knowing the entire story, or even accepting his words. He just needed to say them out loud for her to hear to he could move on with himself. And seeing him turning back into a dog and wandering off was also heartbreaking....I thought he would have committed suicide by getting hit by a car or something, but I'm glad he didn't. I like that he's off into the world now. It's a bittersweet ending for him, which I liked.
++ Something was missing though.....
Overall: It was an okay episode, not the best and it certainly was more filler than anything, but it was one of those episodes that could have been boring had it not gone the way it did. I think they did good with handling the Skinwalker concept and the Lucky story, I felt that was the most genuine thing to come out from this episode was his story. Crowley continues to be entertaining, Dean continues to be a dick and dwelling over stupid shit, Sam also continues to entertain me with his soulless snarky humor, and of course he wants to become the other Sam which I hope we get more answers soon regarding the whole soul situation because I am lost on what it still means. Either way, I thought this was a good episode considering how it could have gone.
Also, is it just me or have the episode titles for this show this season kind of risen to ridiculous levels? Between these, the official show score song titles and the new promos they have out now (you know, the over-photoshopped and airbrushed AU!promo), I somehow feel like it's become a parody of itself. I don't mind that the show is finally getting more publicity and all but, idk. It feels rather weird to me.
Anyone remember these promotional photoshoots from like the earlier seasons, or even this fantastic S1 promo? Whatever happened to having those, huh? Variety CW, we need some.
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no subject
Date: 2010-11-14 04:25 pm (UTC)Agreed, I still like Dean, but I don't like the OOC!Emo!Dick-to-Cas Dean that Sera seems to love. Sadly I was excepting OOC!Dean this season, I just didn't think it would be THIS bad. I've never thought that Sera really 'got' Dean as a character. As much as it would piss me off on behalf of Lisa and Dean as characters, I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if Dean goes back to Lisa (and she takes him back) at the end of the season. If that happens canon SPN will officially be dead to me and I'll stick fanfic. Dead I say.
'I somehow feel like it's become a parody of itself. I don't mind that the show is finally getting more publicity and all but, idk. It feels rather weird to me.'
Agreed. Personally I think the only reason SPN is getting more promo stuff is because Dawn O REALLY wants that seventh season so she doesn't have to cancel SPN and Smallville at the same time.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-14 06:30 pm (UTC)I just hate what Sera Gamble did with his character, from bringing Lisa back randomly last season to this. Such disservice to both characters really. -__-
I'm still saying "hell no" to a seventh season. Why do we need it? We don't. There's nothing left to tell, this purgatory stuff could have been added last season had they had the sense of handling the apocalypse properly. But they didn't. So, idk. :/ I feel like the story is overdue for being over with, should have ended last season in my honest opinion. Or you know, if they wanted to do this kind of continuation there should have been a televised movie.
And then a spin-off with Castiel. That would have been good. ;)
no subject
Date: 2010-11-14 07:28 pm (UTC)Yep. What really gets me is not only did Sera do a disservice to both characters (Lisa in particular) but that relationship really added nothing to the show other than more manpain for Dean. At this point I would take Sera sticking Sam with fangirl!Becky (and I hate fangirl!Becky) if that meant Dean/Lisa just went away.
'I'm still saying "hell no" to a seventh season. Why do we need it? We don't. There's nothing left to tell...'
True, but this wouldn't be the first show that Dawn O has run into the ground.
'Or you know, if they wanted to do this kind of continuation there should have been a televised movie.
And then a spin-off with Castiel. That would have been good. ;)'
That would work :D
'I feel like the story is overdue for being over with, should have ended last season in my honest opinion.'
Yeah. It seemed like the first five were really building to something, and now it seems like they don't know what to do.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-14 08:20 pm (UTC)I lol'd, only because I agree. I'd take that over Dean and Lisa any day. Also, I never really hated fangirl!Becky because I liked the humor behind the shoutout to fandom and all of that, but of course after realizing that she was the representation of Sera Gamble as Chuck was for Kripke I started to go "okay, that is wayyy overboard with the self-inserting."
True, but this wouldn't be the first show that Dawn O has run into the ground.
Unfortunately. Ugh, why can't they replace Dawn O with someone else? Same with replacing a new showrunner for this show, they're both fandom ruiners. They ruin fandoms. *nods*
Yeah. It seemed like the first five were really building to something, and now it seems like they don't know what to do.
Seriously. I'm convinced that the only reason Kripke agreed to another season was because he was pressured by the network (and to some extent, the fans who just want gazillions more seasons no matter what happens) and he finally gave in. Or rather, sold out which is what I call it. Kripke stepping down and allow Sera Gamble of all people be showrunner? It's like suicide, imo.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-14 08:44 pm (UTC)Well it's not so much that I hate fangirl!Becky but that I hate forth wall breaking in general; as much as I liked MATEOTB I thought that canon!fandom joke got really old by the time The Real Ghostbusters came along. The fact that it's so obvious that a rabid Sam!girl is supposed to be Sera's author avatar just fills my little Dean!girl/Cas!girl heart with dread.
'Same with replacing a new showrunner for this show, they're both fandom ruiners. They ruin fandoms. *nods*'
Yeah, I've heard that Dawn O might be retooling Nikita and all I could think is WHY!?
'Kripke stepping down and allow Sera Gamble of all people be showrunner? It's like suicide, imo.'
I for one would love to know the logic behind that decision. I would have pick Carver or Edlund before her. For all we know Dawn O could have been the one who wanted Sera in charge because Sera's melodramatic writing seems to be the kind of writing Dawn likes.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-14 08:57 pm (UTC)Yeah, I understand what you mean by that. It was funny the first time, little jab here and there hahaha, but once was enough because now the breaking of the fourth wall seems rather pointless and almost like jumping the shark, in a way.
Yeah, I've heard that Dawn O might be retooling Nikita and all I could think is WHY!?
Yeah, they're thinking of "revamping" the show midseason because it might appeal to the younger audience of the network's demographic if there was some ~melodramatic romance~ situation going on. Which kind of defeats the purpose of the entire show, honestly. It doesn't fit the style and honestly, Nikita is way above being so hung up on anything like that. Independent woman kind of a show, we don't need all that drama. Let this show be as it is, it's already getting tons of praise anyway. Besides, there's already some UST going on between two characters. Subtext people, it's all about the subtext; we thrive from it.
/ sorry, going on my rant there. Nikita is my new favorite show and if Dawn O screw with it I am gonna be severely pissed. >:|
I for one would love to know the logic behind that decision. I would have pick Carver or Edlund before her. For all we know Dawn O could have been the one who wanted Sera in charge because Sera's melodramatic writing seems to be the kind of writing Dawn likes.
Agreed. It's all sad, disappointing and rather frightening to be honest. I trust Edlund and Carver over Gamble any day of the week.
Also, it seems like Kripke is attending a convention soon, I hope someone has the balls to ask him that questions precisely because I seriously want to know his answer and logic behind these decisions he's been making (or not making, depending).
no subject
Date: 2010-11-14 09:19 pm (UTC)Exactly.
'/ sorry, going on my rant there. Nikita is my new favorite show and if Dawn O screw with it I am gonna be severely pissed. >:|'
Oh no rant away.
'Yeah, they're thinking of "revamping" the show midseason because it might appeal to the younger audience of the network's demographic if there was some ~melodramatic romance~ situation going on. Which kind of defeats the purpose of the entire show, honestly. It doesn't fit the style and honestly, Nikita is way above being so hung up on anything like that...'
True, but like Supernatural I guess Nikita is another show that Dawn O doesn't get.
'Also, it seems like Kripke is attending a convention soon, I hope someone has the balls to ask him that questions precisely because I seriously want to know his answer and logic behind these decisions he's been making (or not making, depending).'
Oh I hope someone asks that question.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-14 10:20 pm (UTC)It's unfortunate really. Why can't she trust the shows to do what they will without influencing them? This is why I wish creators wouldn't give in so easily, but sometimes it's out of their hands (ex. FOX taking control over the direction of Dollhouse and Firefly, when they really were better off untouched since Joss knew what he originally wanted from them and had the network just butted out I think they would have been successful).
Oh I hope someone asks that question.
Oh trust me, if I had the money to go out of the country to one of those conventions I would definitely do so myself. Granted it would be phrased differently than my inner angry!fangirl tone, but you know. I want to see if he gives an intelligent answer or just a practiced bullshit one. I'd be all, just be straightforward dude.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-15 04:44 pm (UTC)Oh man that would be awesome!
'Why can't she trust the shows to do what they will without influencing them?'
Not enough melodrama I'm guessing. She seems to think that her coveted teenage girl demo loves that crap.
'This is why I wish creators wouldn't give in so easily, but sometimes it's out of their hands (ex. FOX taking control over the direction of Dollhouse and Firefly, when they really were better off untouched since Joss knew what he originally wanted from them and had the network just butted out I think they would have been successful).'
True, but I guess not everyone can be like the executive producer on Andromeda who left the show after two seasons because TPTB wanted to make too changes to the show; apparently they wanted him to get rid of the overreaching story arcs (TPTB seems to hate those) and dumb the show down.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-15 05:10 pm (UTC)Which is kind of ridiculous. I mean okay, I do have guilty pleasures because yes I still watch shows like Gossip Girl that have the ridiculous melodrama happening, but even fans of GG are annoyed with the directions the show has been going for some seasons now. And not every single show has to be like that, because it all depends on the genre of the show and what their targeted audiences are, which isn't the same group of people. Dawn O just doesn't get that.
True, but I guess not everyone can be like the executive producer on Andromeda who left the show after two seasons because TPTB wanted to make too changes to the show; apparently they wanted him to get rid of the overreaching story arcs (TPTB seems to hate those) and dumb the show down.
It's just kind of sad seeing how much TPTB can just overpower the creation with their own vision. I'm reminded of what Joss Whedon mentioned in a commentary about how creative minds are constantly slapped down due to the industry that only cares about money and numbers, and this is absolutely unfortunately true. Some creative minds are even driven away, as the example you pointed out, because they cannot handle their works being taken in that direction. It makes me wonder if that's what happened with Kripke, he stepped down as showrunner.....
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Date: 2010-11-15 06:06 pm (UTC)True.
'I'm reminded of what Joss Whedon mentioned in a commentary about how creative minds are constantly slapped down due to the industry that only cares about money and numbers, and this is absolutely unfortunately true.'
I remember that and it is unfortunate; I think that's why I don't watch a lot of scripted American tv but I do watch quite a bit of scripted UK tv. I really dislike the practice that a lot of American networks have of only buying six episodes of a new show and if it isn't a hit right away they don't even bother with the rest. Some shows take a while to find their fans.
'Some creative minds are even driven away, as the example you pointed out, because they cannot handle their works being taken in that direction. It makes me wonder if that's what happened with Kripke, he stepped down as showrunner.....'
Now that is a good question and I would LOVE to know that answer.
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Date: 2010-11-15 06:21 pm (UTC)Not only that, but it takes a while for other countries overseas to get those premieres of the newer shows and quite frankly they are also a building fanbase too. International audiences also matter, and to not give a show a chance to grow and develop for at least a season and see how it does well overseas is rather unfair, in my opinion. I mean I get it, it's a business and they need to have something sell, but they aren't allowing these kinds of shows to have proper time to gain those bigger numbers when there's people elsewhere that cannot watch it until sometime later.
The entire system is fucked up. I've seen so many newer shows this season get canceled because of them not holding up on the "higher ratings" scale, it's ridiculous.
Now that is a good question and I would LOVE to know that answer.
*nods* Particularly since Kripke planned for only five seasons, and he wanted his show to end on a high note and while still on top. From the way things are going now, he won't get his wish and again it's like committing suicide to his own creation. I really want to know the real reason why he stepped down and if he agrees with this decision (and by that, not answering for the fans or about what the fans want, but what he believes and truly thinks about the direction it's going in).
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Date: 2010-11-15 09:06 pm (UTC)Completely agree and good point.
'The entire system is fucked up. I've seen so many newer shows this season get canceled because of them not holding up on the "higher ratings" scale, it's ridiculous.'
I know. There have been plenty of shows that I thought did well enough to get another season, only to be canceled because their ratings weren't as high as TPTB would have liked.
'From the way things are going now, he won't get his wish and again it's like committing suicide to his own creation. I really want to know the real reason why he stepped down and if he agrees with this decision (and by that, not answering for the fans or about what the fans want, but what he believes and truly thinks about the direction it's going in).'
True, I just want to know what he REALLY thinks of what Sera is doing to the show. A lot of episodes this season have felt like SPN bad-fic that had been filmed (Sera's season opener was probably the worst one they ever had).
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Date: 2010-11-16 08:12 am (UTC)It actually has me wondering, has this been a new thing because I don't remember new shows being canceled almost immediately after they premiered? At least not this many. Usually I remember certain shows would be given almost an entire season (13 episodes at the least) before any decision was made.
True, I just want to know what he REALLY thinks of what Sera is doing to the show. A lot of episodes this season have felt like SPN bad-fic that had been filmed (Sera's season opener was probably the worst one they ever had).
Oh yeah, that premiere was singularly the worst premiere they've had in the history of this show, and that's not reassuring to those who had been wary from the moment they announced a new season with a new showrunner. And this season has definitely felt like badfic from that very moment, and I seriously want to know how Kripke is feeling about his show being treated as such. He's still part of the decision-making, as I recall him saying, he's just in the background, but it still makes me wonder if he would have approved of some of the nonsense that's been going on.
Basically, just some straightforward answers on if this is the direction he wanted the show to go in and whether he approves of it now or regrets it.
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Date: 2010-11-16 05:26 pm (UTC)I don't think it's a new thing, but I do think canceling shows after only six episodes happens a lot more often than it used to. I think the bad economy makes TPTB much more cautious about spending money on a full season of even an under-performing show, which seems incredibly short sighted to me; most shows don't start really making money until they go into syndication.
'Basically, just some straightforward answers on if this is the direction he wanted the show to go in and whether he approves of it now or regrets it.'
Yep.
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Date: 2010-11-16 11:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-17 03:24 pm (UTC)I know. Their not really looking at the big picture.