Fellow Slytherclaw, reporting for duty.
Aug. 29th, 2010 07:48 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rogueslayer452Day 07 - Least favorite plot device employed by way too many books you actually enjoyed otherwise
I actually had to think about this for a while, because I haven't really encountered plot devices overused too much in the books I read, sans the books from the same author who uses similar devices in most of their works. The only thing that really comes to mind is contrived romances and unnecessary plot twists, especially if the reader can figure it out long before the supposed twist or red-herring is revealed. There's nothing that takes me out of a good story more than the former, because when you have naturally chemistry going between characters it shouldn't be forced in that "hey we like each other, let's get together/get married/have sex immediately!" Another thing with that is when two characters obviously have that perfect chemistry but nothing ever happens. It's like really, you have these characters click really well and then in the end nothing comes from it? What is up with that?
And obviously plot twists/red-herrings that can be seen from a mile away can get rather annoying, especially if it's meant as a deus ex machina device which, yeah, can definitely ruin a perfectly good story. I also think that wrapping up a story with a pretty little bow shouldn't always be the case, sometimes it's better to have that open ending, to leave a little cliffhanger that is just as satisfying as a conclusive ending.
There's a discussion going on right now over on![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
hp_commonroom regarding the Hogwarts Houses, and topic of discussion that I have always been intrigued by because I have very strong opinions on the matter. As much fun as it is deciphering which House you'd belong to, there's an inherit flaw in the entire Housing system as a whole. Many people at the post believe, and agree, that Slytherin House has been massively sidelined at being given any kind of redeeming qualities in the books despite the lessons about inter-House unity instead of the blatant House segregation. This is something I still have problems with how that message was contradicted and how JKR didn't show both sides of Slytherin, aside from humanizing and sympathizing with Malfoys in the last two books and especially with Snape in the last book. Of course, there's loads of issues with the Wizarding World in general which is half of the reason for such an overgeneralization, but the problem still remain nonetheless. There's very interesting opinions over there if you want to take a look. Of course, I'm being reminded why debating with HP fans is so much fun, especially when opinionated thoughts get in the way. /sarcasm noted
I still maintain the belief that had the books not allowed Harry to know of the representation of the Houses and had he been sorted into Slytherin and fought against the stereotypes gone with it, the results would have been far more interesting, don'tcha think? As much as I love the series, I think that would have been fascinating to see that struggle with needing to break that mold.
Someone met Sendhil Ramamurthy in person at the FanExpo 2010 recently, which aside from Misha Collins I would end up becoming a bumbling idiot around him because asdflaskflsfdk gorgeous man. Anyway, the writeup of this person's encounter is perhaps the best writeup I've seen, because it shows how adorable Sendhil is and his polite honesty regarding Heroes and what went wrong, which is something I had been curious about since I know many of the actors weren't happy with what was happening on the show. But it's nice to hear him say things in his own words. Oh, and he signed an autograph to the community. D'awww. ♥
Oh, and who wants to spend an evening with Tricia Helfer? *_________*
I actually had to think about this for a while, because I haven't really encountered plot devices overused too much in the books I read, sans the books from the same author who uses similar devices in most of their works. The only thing that really comes to mind is contrived romances and unnecessary plot twists, especially if the reader can figure it out long before the supposed twist or red-herring is revealed. There's nothing that takes me out of a good story more than the former, because when you have naturally chemistry going between characters it shouldn't be forced in that "hey we like each other, let's get together/get married/have sex immediately!" Another thing with that is when two characters obviously have that perfect chemistry but nothing ever happens. It's like really, you have these characters click really well and then in the end nothing comes from it? What is up with that?
And obviously plot twists/red-herrings that can be seen from a mile away can get rather annoying, especially if it's meant as a deus ex machina device which, yeah, can definitely ruin a perfectly good story. I also think that wrapping up a story with a pretty little bow shouldn't always be the case, sometimes it's better to have that open ending, to leave a little cliffhanger that is just as satisfying as a conclusive ending.
There's a discussion going on right now over on
hp_commonroom regarding the Hogwarts Houses, and topic of discussion that I have always been intrigued by because I have very strong opinions on the matter. As much fun as it is deciphering which House you'd belong to, there's an inherit flaw in the entire Housing system as a whole. Many people at the post believe, and agree, that Slytherin House has been massively sidelined at being given any kind of redeeming qualities in the books despite the lessons about inter-House unity instead of the blatant House segregation. This is something I still have problems with how that message was contradicted and how JKR didn't show both sides of Slytherin, aside from humanizing and sympathizing with Malfoys in the last two books and especially with Snape in the last book. Of course, there's loads of issues with the Wizarding World in general which is half of the reason for such an overgeneralization, but the problem still remain nonetheless. There's very interesting opinions over there if you want to take a look. Of course, I'm being reminded why debating with HP fans is so much fun, especially when opinionated thoughts get in the way. /sarcasm notedI still maintain the belief that had the books not allowed Harry to know of the representation of the Houses and had he been sorted into Slytherin and fought against the stereotypes gone with it, the results would have been far more interesting, don'tcha think? As much as I love the series, I think that would have been fascinating to see that struggle with needing to break that mold.
Someone met Sendhil Ramamurthy in person at the FanExpo 2010 recently, which aside from Misha Collins I would end up becoming a bumbling idiot around him because asdflaskflsfdk gorgeous man. Anyway, the writeup of this person's encounter is perhaps the best writeup I've seen, because it shows how adorable Sendhil is and his polite honesty regarding Heroes and what went wrong, which is something I had been curious about since I know many of the actors weren't happy with what was happening on the show. But it's nice to hear him say things in his own words. Oh, and he signed an autograph to the community. D'awww. ♥
Oh, and who wants to spend an evening with Tricia Helfer? *_________*
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no subject
Date: 2010-09-01 07:31 pm (UTC)I only say rumored time skip because some people thought that was what Chuck's 'Dean didn't see Bobby again for a while' line meant. I'm hoping if the do have a time skip it will only be three months (like they did in season four) so when the show starts up again in September it will also be September in-show. If it's a year or something and Dean and Lisa are married and/or have a kid my desk will have a few new dents from where my head hits it repeatedly. Considering my desk is metal that would be quite the accomplishment.
'Then again, the entire Lisa thing is stupid and ridiculous to begin with.'
Yeah, the writer would have to do A LOT of work to make me believe that relationship now. The would certainly have to do more work than they did when they just brought Lisa back out of the blue.
'The only thing I've heard for sure is that he has a huge role to play in the sixth season. Whatever that role is I don't know, but I'm hoping it'll redeem the lack of storyline he had in the fifth season.'
I hear you. I would love it if they brought Crowley back and somehow teamed him up with Cas. Crowley could be hunted by the other demons because he gave the Winchester's the Colt and Cas could be hunted by Raphael because Cas left him in the ring of holy fire (sheriff of Heaven or not I bet Raph is still pissed about that). I've always thought Cas would make a nice Aziraphale to Crowley's Crowley.
'Then again, I don't hold any high hopes for the writing in general. But we'll see where this goes.'
That we will.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-01 10:17 pm (UTC)If this happens I'm going to cease being interested in anything about the show, unless it's Castiel-related, until I am reassured that the writers know what they are doing and have a really good, non-contrived reason for that ever happening. Head-desking, flame-throwing and saying FUCK YOU SERA GAMBLE will be induced hundred times over, for sure. I mean, it was pretty pointless to even add that in (which was a decision I think made out of the blue because they were deciding on the spot that Dean was a red-herring for his own storyline, so they needed a backup which, fuck you show, fuck you).
I have strong opinions on this matter, can't you tell? Heh.
Yeah, the writer would have to do A LOT of work to make me believe that relationship now. The would certainly have to do more work than they did when they just brought Lisa back out of the blue.
Exactly, I completely agree.
I've always thought Cas would make a nice Aziraphale to Crowley's Crowley.
XD They would make the perfect odd couple in fighting crime, for sure. The hilarity that would ensue. And somehow I can imagine Gabriel popping in and getting along with Crowley just fine and dandy while they kind of make Castiel facepalm in the background. lol
no subject
Date: 2010-09-02 02:09 pm (UTC)I hadn't noticed :P I completely agree, especially only watching for the Cas related stuff if they mishandle Dean/Lisa as badly as I think they will. I'm not a big fan of romance to begin with (it's just not something I'm interested in all that much) and when I see the writers put a lead character is a contrived romance (example: the writers have to change one or both character personalities to make it work) I usually stop watching because that just tells me that they've run out of ideas.
'XD They would make the perfect odd couple in fighting crime, for sure. The hilarity that would ensue. And somehow I can imagine Gabriel popping in and getting along with Crowley just fine and dandy while they kind of make Castiel facepalm in the background. lol'
That would be great!
no subject
Date: 2010-09-02 07:08 pm (UTC)This, so much. There are certain areas the show does incredibly well, and other areas, like romance, that they just don't. With the exception of John/Mary and, to a lesser extent, Sam/Jessica, everything they do regarding romances are so forced it's almost painful to watch. Some material just doesn't need that stuff and Supernatural has proved time and time again that they cannot create a relationship that won't end badly. I get the notion they want to do with Dean, wanting him to "grow up", taking responsibility for himself, but I would have preferred him going off alone by himself instead of imposing all his problems into this contrived "relationship" that they so want us to believe. It's ridiculous, it's stupid, random and not needed at all.
And yeah, if this turns out to be the case I'm going to only be watching for Castiel and the subplot for whatever is happening with him this new season. Because like I said before, I'm kind of done with the Winchester story.
BRING ON THE ANGELS AND THE CASTIEL/CROWLEY SPINOFF PLZ! KTHX.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-02 08:33 pm (UTC)That's true. If Lisa and Ben are just there to give Dean yet another thing to angst about, I can't say I'll be surprised.
'I get the notion they want to do with Dean, wanting him to grow up , taking responsibility for himself, but I would have preferred him going off alone by himself instead of imposing all his problems into this contrived relationship that they so want us to believe. It's ridiculous, it's stupid, random and not needed at all.'
So very agreed. To stick contrived romantic love into a show (and to do it badly as that) that has always been about familial love just seems strange.
'Because like I said before, I'm kind of done with the Winchester story.'
Yeah me too.
'BRING ON THE ANGELS AND THE CASTIEL/CROWLEY SPINOFF PLZ KTHX.'
SECONDED
no subject
Date: 2010-09-04 06:34 pm (UTC)Same. I'll be pissed off and angry, but definitely not surprised because it's a terrible cliche in this show.
So very agreed. To stick contrived romantic love into a show (and to do it badly as that) that has always been about familial love just seems strange.
They really should cease romances entirely and stick with the familial love, because those "romances" hardly should even count because they don't last longer than an episode. I think they think we want it for the fanservice, but...no. Just no. Sorry SPN folks, this is where you fail so horribly and just need to STOP.
I'm actually thinking that if S6 turns out to be a flop, I'm going to really start a petition for a Castiel/angel spin-off. Everyone except Sera Gamble will be invited.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-05 02:20 pm (UTC)Oh yes, they're just not good at it. SPN as always reminded me of Stargate: Atlantis in that respect. I liked Jennifer Keller (even if I thought they only put her in the show because of Jewel Staite's name recognition) just not with Rodney Mckay; I always thought her and Ronon had much more chemistry and she didn't try to change Ronon, but TPTB thought otherwise.
'I'm actually thinking that if S6 turns out to be a flop, I'm going to really start a petition for a Castiel/angel spin-off. Everyone except Sera Gamble will be invited.'
I'll sign! Sera's invite getting 'lost' wouldn't upset me all that much. I still haven't forgiven Sera for the way she plopped Cas into Song Remains the Same; I can understand why they kept him out of the middle but I don't have to like it even if Misha acted his heart out in his ten minutes of screen time. Going by the episodes she wrote in seasons four and five where Cas was either barely in them or not in them at all, I'm worried she won't know what to do with him in season six and ruin his character because of it. I've always liked how Jeremy Carver wrote Cas in general and hated how Dabb & Loflin wrote him as comic relief in Children Are Our Future, so the fact that Carver isn't writing for the show anymore and as far as I know Dabb & Loflin are (I don't know who will be writing for season six, just assuming they'll be back) doesn't fill me with a whole lot of confidence when it comes to Cas.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-05 06:15 pm (UTC)I didn't watch much of SG:Atlantis however I know what you're referring to. I do agree, mostly because I think Ronon/Keller would have been amazing (because come on, have you seen Ronon? Hot damn, break me off a piece of that...) although I've heard Jewel Staite say that she thought Keller was right for Rodney because they were both intellectual people and she would choose someone who she would get along with in the long run of things. Not sure if that was something she believed in or because of TPTB's decision of heading in that direction, but I can understand that explanation somewhat.
But eh, sometimes romances and relationships shouldn't be needed if it's gonna be all forced and random like that, you know?
I've always liked how Jeremy Carver wrote Cas in general and hated how Dabb & Loflin wrote him as comic relief in Children Are Our Future, so the fact that Carver isn't writing for the show anymore and as far as I know Dabb & Loflin are (I don't know who will be writing for season six, just assuming they'll be back) doesn't fill me with a whole lot of confidence when it comes to Cas.
Total agreement with you, bb. I was heartbroken that Jeremy Carver left because he was one of the few writers on the show I actually trust. I really don't like or trust Sera Gamble for anything dealing with the mythology of the angels or Castiel, since we know she hates the angel stuff and I get the impression she doesn't like Castiel all that much and I hate that she's been placed in charge because I know she'll be fucking up everything with his characterization and involvement with the boys. I just wish she would go away and Carver to have been in control. But heh, that's just my biased opinion. There's little confidence I have for the writing of this show that it's just sad. :(
However, for my spin off I would have Jeremy Carver and Ben Edlund being the primary writers for. Because I love them and their work on the show, among other things.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-05 06:52 pm (UTC)I know. That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to the Conan remake (Jason's going to be Conan). And here I was bummed that Jared hadn't gotten the role.
'Total agreement with you, bb. I was heartbroken that Jeremy Carver left because he was one of the few writers on the show I actually trust.'
I wish him the best with Being Human, but tell me about it. I certainly don't trust Dabb & Loflin; when you're writing about real Gods you might want to research, guys. Not the mention the first time they wrote Cas they turned him into comic relief.
'I really don't like or trust Sera Gamble for anything dealing with the mythology of the angels or Castiel, since we know she hates the angel stuff and I get the impression she doesn't like Castiel all that much and I hate that she's been placed in charge because I know she'll be fucking up everything with his characterization and involvement with the boys.'
I'm afraid of that too. If she does screw up Cas I don't think I'll have anymore reason to watch.
'However, for my spin off I would have Jeremy Carver and Ben Edlund being the primary writers for. Because I love them and their work on the show, among other things.'
Please let this happen. Please! Do you think you could steal Raelle Tucker away from True Blood for a couple of episodes? What Is and What Should Never Be is still one of my all time favorite Supernatural episodes. When Monster At The End Of This Book first aired I thought it was pretty funny that even though Chuck's not a very good writer (although I have read real paper books written in his adverb abuse style) he was named after two of the better writers on the show.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-05 11:19 pm (UTC)I certainly don't trust Dabb & Loflin; when you're writing about real Gods you might want to research, guys. Not the mention the first time they wrote Cas they turned him into comic relief.
Yeah, I really disliked how they handled that. I get it was supposed to have been a homage to American Gods but seriously, make sure it works in the universe that you're already in, ffs. And while I love Cas, he deserves better than being just simply comic relief. They should have focused on his actual character journey instead of that, you know? Ugh, this show sometimes I swear.
I honestly think the first few episodes will determine whether or not I'm going to be watching the rest. It's how it was with me and Heroes S3, I knew immediately things were different from the premiere and if this is going to be exactly the same as that then I don't want to continue cringing as the show gets pulled into the ground.
Which is sad to say, but true for someone who wanted the show to end on that high note.
Please let this happen. Please! Do you think you could steal Raelle Tucker away from True Blood for a couple of episodes?
Will do. :) I'm just gonna pull all the good writers and have them actually do the mythology/angels/supporting characters justice. Winchesters who? ;p
no subject
Date: 2010-09-06 02:06 pm (UTC)Me too. I'm hoping to see it in theaters. My dad is a big Conan fan (he has hundreds of Conan book, some of them are older than me) so maybe I'll take him to see it.
'Yeah, I really disliked how they handled that. I get it was supposed to have been a homage to American Gods but seriously, make sure it works in the universe that you're already in, ffs.'
Tell me about it.
'And while I love Cas, he deserves better than being just simply comic relief. They should have focused on his actual character journey instead of that, you know? Ugh, this show sometimes I swear.'
Agreed.
'I honestly think the first few episodes will determine whether or not I'm going to be watching the rest.'
Same here. When I fell out of love with Torchwood after series 2 I kept watching CoE hoping that it would bring back my interest, but if anything it killed what little interest I had left. I'd rather pretend parts of SPN season five and season six+ don't exist and still like the show in fanfic, than to keep watching the show hoping it will get better and end up hating it.