Just more thoughts.
Aug. 30th, 2021 10:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rogueslayer452This is somewhat of a continuation from my previous post where I talk about what needs improving in the fandom community. This will feature things I wanted to mention but couldn't really fit into that post, mostly because it would've been much, much longer and with that post it was more of an overall observation, this kind of focuses on certain areas I think needs improving in fandom spaces. Again, it's not everything, since the other things are more minor inconveniences that I think we can agree on (ex: shipping wars being exhausting and pointless and how people should just mind their own business), just things connected to the bigger issues that I think deeply reflect the current state of fandom culture at the moment that I think needs some improvement.
** The fourth wall needs to come back up. I think this is the biggest point I want to make because I feel that fans have become too comfortable with interacting with creators/writers/actors via social media to the point of harassing them, mostly for validation of their own personal needs with a piece of media. This has led to a lot of fan expectations and fan demands and entitlement and lacking in boundaries which is bad enough, but furthermore this has led to an unfortunate case of how, perhaps not mainstream necessarily but how popularized fandom has become which has led to a whole lot of issues (re: purity culture, the push for not being "weird" or liking "weird things" and to just "be normal" because celebrities/actors are watching you, ridiculous hypotheticals to guilt-trip you, etc). I talked about purity culture in my previous post so I'm not going to rehash that, but this is why the breaking of the fourth wall has gradually damaged the functionality of the fandom community over the years, in my opinion. Fandom has always been about being weird, it's always been about embracing and celebrating your weirdness in a safe and controlled environment with other likeminded people who won't judge you for it. By breaking that fourth wall, by letting outsiders in and not understanding how the unspoken rules of fandom work, it has really created this hostile environment where people are actually afraid of sharing their likes with the community due to being ostracized and harassed by others who think you should act according to what is "morally/socially acceptable" or whatever. Like, no. Fuck that.
So, basically, bring back the fourth wall, reinstate the "whatever happens in fandom stays in fandom" motto again, and just let people be weird freely without consequence. Fandom doesn't need to be popularized, it doesn't need to go mainstream, and fans need to stay away from actors/writers/creators/etc because most of them don't know how to act.
** I wish there was a way of sharing fandom history with younger fans without the condescending tone that I've been seeing around. Yes, this has mostly been a response to a lot of them unfortunately being led into the “anti” mentality (which is very much interconnected with purity culture and is cult-like in their ideologies) and the need to educate them so they don't continue down a destructive path by mindlessly believing in the misinformation that is constantly spread, but those around that age range (teens and early twenties) think they know everything and that they know better than anyone else around them and hates when adults tell them what to do, and having adults in fandom telling them that they need to educate themselves on certain matters, even if it's important, isn't going to get them to do it. Yes, it's frustrating, but you cannot force that upon them if they're not willing to listen. Linking to fanlore.org can only do so much.
(Also, ageism? Not cool, from either side. Stop that.)
** Most “discourse” is just fandom wank disguised as something “profound” due to the language being used, or in most cases misused/overused by people wanting to elicit a certain reaction from others. I do think that there are important discussions to be had and interesting metas that can be created in fandom spaces, because I enjoy reading those, but sadly, again thanks to the endless void of social media, those get lost in a sea of pointless fandom drama posts that rarely are about creating and partaking in nuanced discussions and are just wanting to either get into fights with people or getting mad when people don't agree with their stances. Most online “discourse” is this, not just within fandom, and I think that word itself has lost all meaning at this point. There needs to be a better term, or at least a better distinction between what is an actual discussion happening versus whatever has been happening in these spaces.
** And lastly, I've talked about this many times before on my journal so not to sound like a broken record, but another improvement we need to have within the community itself are better platforms for fandom activity to thrive. Returning to the first point above, social media is a crux of the issue of how stagnant fandom has become across many different platforms, and none which really recapture that sense of community that it once had, especially since a lot of these social media platforms are run by corporations/companies who want to sell them something or monetize the content without understanding the community of people occupying those spaces, mainly because there is no one community since it's a mixture of everyone in a massive space that has no moderation. Places like LJ/DW/AO3, and possibly whichever forums that still exist out there, are the last remaining pieces of what a community in a controlled environment feels like. Perhaps the other option could be discord, but I've never really been there so I cannot say for certain what it's like in those servers (though I've known that some of them are very, well, exclusionary and I've heard more than some bad reports from individual servers that act like gossip forums more than anything else, which is unfortunate).
How to implement this though, I don't know. I'm not knowledgeable with creating a website and only vague on coding in general, and I know others have attempted this previously with little to no success. I just miss comment threads, I miss interacting with people that isn't just a passive like or reblog button, I miss squeeing with people excessively over something in long format comments. And I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. It's just a matter of figuring out the online world as it has been shifted and adjusting to it while also trying to recreated that sense of community and connection with others.
These are just my thoughts and observations. We might not have all the answers or solutions but I'm hoping that, somehow, fandom finds a way of making these things better, either soon or in the future.
** The fourth wall needs to come back up. I think this is the biggest point I want to make because I feel that fans have become too comfortable with interacting with creators/writers/actors via social media to the point of harassing them, mostly for validation of their own personal needs with a piece of media. This has led to a lot of fan expectations and fan demands and entitlement and lacking in boundaries which is bad enough, but furthermore this has led to an unfortunate case of how, perhaps not mainstream necessarily but how popularized fandom has become which has led to a whole lot of issues (re: purity culture, the push for not being "weird" or liking "weird things" and to just "be normal" because celebrities/actors are watching you, ridiculous hypotheticals to guilt-trip you, etc). I talked about purity culture in my previous post so I'm not going to rehash that, but this is why the breaking of the fourth wall has gradually damaged the functionality of the fandom community over the years, in my opinion. Fandom has always been about being weird, it's always been about embracing and celebrating your weirdness in a safe and controlled environment with other likeminded people who won't judge you for it. By breaking that fourth wall, by letting outsiders in and not understanding how the unspoken rules of fandom work, it has really created this hostile environment where people are actually afraid of sharing their likes with the community due to being ostracized and harassed by others who think you should act according to what is "morally/socially acceptable" or whatever. Like, no. Fuck that.
So, basically, bring back the fourth wall, reinstate the "whatever happens in fandom stays in fandom" motto again, and just let people be weird freely without consequence. Fandom doesn't need to be popularized, it doesn't need to go mainstream, and fans need to stay away from actors/writers/creators/etc because most of them don't know how to act.
** I wish there was a way of sharing fandom history with younger fans without the condescending tone that I've been seeing around. Yes, this has mostly been a response to a lot of them unfortunately being led into the “anti” mentality (which is very much interconnected with purity culture and is cult-like in their ideologies) and the need to educate them so they don't continue down a destructive path by mindlessly believing in the misinformation that is constantly spread, but those around that age range (teens and early twenties) think they know everything and that they know better than anyone else around them and hates when adults tell them what to do, and having adults in fandom telling them that they need to educate themselves on certain matters, even if it's important, isn't going to get them to do it. Yes, it's frustrating, but you cannot force that upon them if they're not willing to listen. Linking to fanlore.org can only do so much.
(Also, ageism? Not cool, from either side. Stop that.)
** Most “discourse” is just fandom wank disguised as something “profound” due to the language being used, or in most cases misused/overused by people wanting to elicit a certain reaction from others. I do think that there are important discussions to be had and interesting metas that can be created in fandom spaces, because I enjoy reading those, but sadly, again thanks to the endless void of social media, those get lost in a sea of pointless fandom drama posts that rarely are about creating and partaking in nuanced discussions and are just wanting to either get into fights with people or getting mad when people don't agree with their stances. Most online “discourse” is this, not just within fandom, and I think that word itself has lost all meaning at this point. There needs to be a better term, or at least a better distinction between what is an actual discussion happening versus whatever has been happening in these spaces.
** And lastly, I've talked about this many times before on my journal so not to sound like a broken record, but another improvement we need to have within the community itself are better platforms for fandom activity to thrive. Returning to the first point above, social media is a crux of the issue of how stagnant fandom has become across many different platforms, and none which really recapture that sense of community that it once had, especially since a lot of these social media platforms are run by corporations/companies who want to sell them something or monetize the content without understanding the community of people occupying those spaces, mainly because there is no one community since it's a mixture of everyone in a massive space that has no moderation. Places like LJ/DW/AO3, and possibly whichever forums that still exist out there, are the last remaining pieces of what a community in a controlled environment feels like. Perhaps the other option could be discord, but I've never really been there so I cannot say for certain what it's like in those servers (though I've known that some of them are very, well, exclusionary and I've heard more than some bad reports from individual servers that act like gossip forums more than anything else, which is unfortunate).
How to implement this though, I don't know. I'm not knowledgeable with creating a website and only vague on coding in general, and I know others have attempted this previously with little to no success. I just miss comment threads, I miss interacting with people that isn't just a passive like or reblog button, I miss squeeing with people excessively over something in long format comments. And I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. It's just a matter of figuring out the online world as it has been shifted and adjusting to it while also trying to recreated that sense of community and connection with others.
These are just my thoughts and observations. We might not have all the answers or solutions but I'm hoping that, somehow, fandom finds a way of making these things better, either soon or in the future.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2021-09-03 02:32 pm (UTC)It also gets enabling for some actors - see Nicholas Brendan who is on Facebook live frequently these days and there are always fans falling over themselves to tell him he's great. Like, the guy is seriously troubled, abuses his partners, and is addicted to drugs - he needs help, not to be told he's perfect.
I wonder if there's a way to try to make LJ communities a thing again. There's A want for that kind of fandom, maybe it could work.
I feel like shows like The Good Place worked so well because the creator had a plan and then did the plan. The minute you try to make big changes for fans it's a mess. This is where fan "cancellation" can be too much. Like absolutely cancel people who are racist, or sexist, or abusers etc. Actually harmful behaviour should be brought to light and not rewarded. But trying to lead social media revolts over a ship or because the story took a turn isn't a great look. I love some shows and really don't like choices they made but at the end of the day I can still like the show.
no subject
Date: 2021-09-03 05:35 pm (UTC)Write it, read it, enjoy it, but don't bring the actors into it.
Exactly, and I think this is something many people nowadays, especially younger fans, don't really understand anymore and something that we need to kind of bring it back. Again, bring up that fourth wall, reinstate this "fandom is for fans" and that you shouldn't be bringing in anyone outside of that unless they are curious themselves. If an actor or creator wants to look at fanart or read fanfiction, they can go looking for that stuff themselves. Don't bring it to them.
(And I think that is part of why morality is often brought up, because people are so concerned of what actors or creators will say if they see fanfiction written of them and it's like....it wasn't made for them, it was meant for them to read. This is why some older fans kind of want fandom to go back underground, not that we want it to, but we have people truly believing that actors need to see fanfiction and see how truly "degenerate" some fans are and call them out for being "gross" or whatever and it's just so like, twisted and kind of just looking for some wanky drama bait and I'm just so tired. Fandom is a hobby, not a form of activism, not some morality debate for purity nonsense.)
But trying to lead social media revolts over a ship or because the story took a turn isn't a great look. I love some shows and really don't like choices they made but at the end of the day I can still like the show.
Yes, precisely. There is a difference with calling out something because of actual harmful views, versus calling out something just because you don't like a particular ship and falsely accuse it of being "abusive" when it's actually not. Or trying to cancel a creator for not being inclusive enough, or that something isn't "good representation" when that's just subjective, etc. It's tiring and I can understand why a lot of writers/directors/creators out there are tired of "cancel culture" because we are, too, and I wish this whole thing of "this not being good enough by my standards" level of entitlement would just stop. You're doing more harm then good by acting like you're leading this kind of social justice crusade when it's just....your opinion. You're allowed to have it, but others are allowed to have theirs and creators are allowed to create the story they want to tell without being afraid that someone is going to "cancel" them for being less than perfect.
I wonder if there's a way to try to make LJ communities a thing again. There's A want for that kind of fandom, maybe it could work.
Or something similar, because as much as I want LJ to return to its fandom roots I don't think it will. There should be a place that is created by fans for fans, something I've been saying for a long time now and it still rings true. AO3 was created to be that safe haven for fanfiction and fanworks to be protected after so many being burned by sites trying to fuck them over, and we need that kind of atmosphere for the overall fandom community. How to create that space though, idk. Perhaps DreamWidth, since those have fandom communities there and some are still active, and I've seen people on Tumblr recommend DW as a potential option for those who miss journaling communities.
no subject
Date: 2021-09-07 07:52 pm (UTC)Honestly fandom being more separate from the actors sounds like a good thing. Not all fics/art etc. is for everyone. There are plenty of fanfiction things that I don't enjoy, I just avoid those. But they're not for me. If someone likes making them and someone likes reading them that's who they're for. If I were an actor I'd be SO uncomfortable reading things like real person fic or even fic about my character that's pretty much just porn. There's nothing wrong with either of those things, they just aren't meant for the actors.
Judging fandom work and saying things aren't good enough or up to a standard is so shitty. Just let people make things. We all were less talented when we started at anything but people need to practice in order to get better. It's another kind of gatekeeping in fandom and it's just not healthy for fandom growth if people feel shut out.
I'm feeling more and more tempted to try to make a fandom community. I've just not been in fandom as much lately I feel almost like I don't know how/where to start or what fandom to go with. I miss things like icon contests etc. as well as discussions.
Hmmm or maybe something new - there could be a website called The Fourth Wall - and have it be posting boards about all kids of fandoms. No clue how to do such a thing but I like the idea in my head lol.