Just more thoughts.

[rogueslayer452]

This is somewhat of a continuation from my previous post where I talk about what needs improving in the fandom community. This will feature things I wanted to mention but couldn't really fit into that post, mostly because it would've been much, much longer and with that post it was more of an overall observation, this kind of focuses on certain areas I think needs improving in fandom spaces. Again, it's not everything, since the other things are more minor inconveniences that I think we can agree on (ex: shipping wars being exhausting and pointless and how people should just mind their own business), just things connected to the bigger issues that I think deeply reflect the current state of fandom culture at the moment that I think needs some improvement.


** The fourth wall needs to come back up. I think this is the biggest point I want to make because I feel that fans have become too comfortable with interacting with creators/writers/actors via social media to the point of harassing them, mostly for validation of their own personal needs with a piece of media. This has led to a lot of fan expectations and fan demands and entitlement and lacking in boundaries which is bad enough, but furthermore this has led to an unfortunate case of how, perhaps not mainstream necessarily but how popularized fandom has become which has led to a whole lot of issues (re: purity culture, the push for not being "weird" or liking "weird things" and to just "be normal" because celebrities/actors are watching you, ridiculous hypotheticals to guilt-trip you, etc). I talked about purity culture in my previous post so I'm not going to rehash that, but this is why the breaking of the fourth wall has gradually damaged the functionality of the fandom community over the years, in my opinion. Fandom has always been about being weird, it's always been about embracing and celebrating your weirdness in a safe and controlled environment with other likeminded people who won't judge you for it. By breaking that fourth wall, by letting outsiders in and not understanding how the unspoken rules of fandom work, it has really created this hostile environment where people are actually afraid of sharing their likes with the community due to being ostracized and harassed by others who think you should act according to what is "morally/socially acceptable" or whatever. Like, no. Fuck that.

So, basically, bring back the fourth wall, reinstate the "whatever happens in fandom stays in fandom" motto again, and just let people be weird freely without consequence. Fandom doesn't need to be popularized, it doesn't need to go mainstream, and fans need to stay away from actors/writers/creators/etc because most of them don't know how to act.

** I wish there was a way of sharing fandom history with younger fans without the condescending tone that I've been seeing around. Yes, this has mostly been a response to a lot of them unfortunately being led into the “anti” mentality (which is very much interconnected with purity culture and is cult-like in their ideologies) and the need to educate them so they don't continue down a destructive path by mindlessly believing in the misinformation that is constantly spread, but those around that age range (teens and early twenties) think they know everything and that they know better than anyone else around them and hates when adults tell them what to do, and having adults in fandom telling them that they need to educate themselves on certain matters, even if it's important, isn't going to get them to do it. Yes, it's frustrating, but you cannot force that upon them if they're not willing to listen. Linking to fanlore.org can only do so much.

(Also, ageism? Not cool, from either side. Stop that.)

** Most “discourse” is just fandom wank disguised as something “profound” due to the language being used, or in most cases misused/overused by people wanting to elicit a certain reaction from others. I do think that there are important discussions to be had and interesting metas that can be created in fandom spaces, because I enjoy reading those, but sadly, again thanks to the endless void of social media, those get lost in a sea of pointless fandom drama posts that rarely are about creating and partaking in nuanced discussions and are just wanting to either get into fights with people or getting mad when people don't agree with their stances. Most online “discourse” is this, not just within fandom, and I think that word itself has lost all meaning at this point. There needs to be a better term, or at least a better distinction between what is an actual discussion happening versus whatever has been happening in these spaces.

** And lastly, I've talked about this many times before on my journal so not to sound like a broken record, but another improvement we need to have within the community itself are better platforms for fandom activity to thrive. Returning to the first point above, social media is a crux of the issue of how stagnant fandom has become across many different platforms, and none which really recapture that sense of community that it once had, especially since a lot of these social media platforms are run by corporations/companies who want to sell them something or monetize the content without understanding the community of people occupying those spaces, mainly because there is no one community since it's a mixture of everyone in a massive space that has no moderation. Places like LJ/DW/AO3, and possibly whichever forums that still exist out there, are the last remaining pieces of what a community in a controlled environment feels like. Perhaps the other option could be discord, but I've never really been there so I cannot say for certain what it's like in those servers (though I've known that some of them are very, well, exclusionary and I've heard more than some bad reports from individual servers that act like gossip forums more than anything else, which is unfortunate).

How to implement this though, I don't know. I'm not knowledgeable with creating a website and only vague on coding in general, and I know others have attempted this previously with little to no success. I just miss comment threads, I miss interacting with people that isn't just a passive like or reblog button, I miss squeeing with people excessively over something in long format comments. And I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. It's just a matter of figuring out the online world as it has been shifted and adjusting to it while also trying to recreated that sense of community and connection with others.


These are just my thoughts and observations. We might not have all the answers or solutions but I'm hoping that, somehow, fandom finds a way of making these things better, either soon or in the future.

Comments

[itsnotmymind.livejournal.com]

I have nothing profound to add, but very interesting thoughts!

[sherrilina.livejournal.com]

Yeah I mean the moment LJ really began dying as a fandom spot was when things began going downhill...Tumblr can result in some pretty graphics, but it is not an adequate forum for discussion and community. I only ever made one friend from Tumblr in fandom, and overall it just wasn't a proper substitute. These days ONTD is the only place I see fandom discussion happening in a comm, and it has its own issues.

I do miss the glory days of fandom sometimes, though idk where I would find time to do it now...I spend most of my free time following the news and obsessively reading about COVID, lol. (Since January 2020!). And I guess I have migrated into "new urbanism/public transit" fandom with groups on Facebook...partly it's because I haven't really found any media to feel fannish about/that makes me seek out fab content online in years. No book series to get really excited about, no ships to squee on. Sometimes I don't know if it is me, the stuff I am consuming, or both. *sigh*

But your posts and Princess Weakes' video on purity culture, etc, make me think I am not missing much by not being involved in fandom today.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I think the lack of sites and forums also did it. Especially as in my experience, and this is just me, that's what got me into LJ in the first place, you know. I met people on sites and forums, and we added one another here. Same with friends from fannish chatrooms. Now there really isn't that. And tumblr is a poor substitute for the reasons we've all stated before.

I have found a fan community on facebook, although I use my alias account. Otherwise I couldn't go there. I don't want my fannish activities associated with my personal life in any way, shape or form.



But your posts and Princess Weakes' video on purity culture, etc, make me think I am not missing much by not being involved in fandom today.


I think fandom has always had its issues, but it does sound way more intense in some areas. Even my fandom has its issues, but I don't go on tumblr so I'm sure there's a whole darker side I don't know about. I keep getting back into tumblr, but literally every time I do I remember I can't actually interact with anyone and lose interest.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Tumblr can result in some pretty graphics, but it is not an adequate forum for discussion and community. I only ever made one friend from Tumblr in fandom, and overall it just wasn't a proper substitute.

Yeah, I enjoy Tumblr for what it is and it has its own set of unspoken rules with how to interact with each other that is a learning curve if you're new to the platform (like most sites), but it's not really meant for any kind of discussions or communication that I truly miss when it comes to the fandom community. I know that DW was supposed to have been the LJ substitute as a journaling platform, but that didn't really take off as much as people wanted it to, sadly.

Sometimes I don't know if it is me, the stuff I am consuming, or both. *sigh*

Sometimes a person's interests change. Some people move away from certain communities due to whatever is happening in their lives, and that's perfectly okay.

I've become more active in my fannish interests because I refuse to get wrapped into the doom scroll of IRL events. I use fandom as escapism, to distract myself from everything else happening. And I've gotten into some pretty amazing stuff, from shows and books and the like. And being on places like Tumblr has actually introduced me to some pieces of media that I wouldn't have otherwise known about, which have been great discoveries for me and I've been enjoying that. I don't think I'll ever stop being involved in fandom or being a fangirl, because quite frankly this is something that I love, even if the drama/wank/nonsense continues on (because it always will, it's inevitable) because I can just simply ignore it. Unless it starts becoming a problem as a whole, like the purity culture situation that has been bleeding everywhere at this point beyond just fannish spaces, which is deeply concerning on a lot of levels.

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

I love this post.

The fourth wall is so important and I really think things were much better when creators made the content they wanted to make and fans either liked it or hated it but weren't being directly catered to. You can't please everyone and if you try the story falls apart.

Plus I find the fan interaction online gets really off putting. If the actor/creator is famous enough then many fans seem to think they're interacting with the person and not realizing that there's a company handling their social media. No Nathan Fillion didn't notice you, his social media manager did and is managing the attention that you're giving. It's cool to get to see a bit of what the actors and creators are up to but maybe we just need more social media literacy to realize that everyone is creating an image on social media and actors literally have to do that for their job. They're not hanging out with fans and if they are it's a bit creepy because there's often an age imbalance and more frequently is a power imbalance.

I miss older internet where it was more content driven vs commodified. I made great friends from posting boards and I just don't see that the connections are as easy to make or as strongly made with a lot of the current social media. It would be great to have a site that's by fans for fans and brings back the idea of posting boards etc. to really build conversations vs. "likes"

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I made great friends from posting boards and I just don't see that the connections are as easy to make or as strongly made with a lot of the current social media.

It's definitely harder. I miss that. And I agree that I want more platforms run by fans for fans. I think that's a HUGE element we're missing these days. I guess in a way LJ was the start of it, but even original LJ understood there was a fandom base, a huge one, and was open to it. (Let's not get into everything that came after the original guy left.)
Plus, it was easier to start fan communities and such. You could still curate your experience more than I think you can on newer platforms. Even Reddit is reliant on Reddit rules. I think kudos are awful for fan communities, for example, but I don't think they can do anything about that.

(I mean kudos on Reddit, not Ao3, by the way. I actually like them on Ao3, but no one gets downvoted. They're just a nice way of saying people like your fic.)

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

Reddit feels passive a lot of the time, you can upvote and downvote but not engage otherwise.

Ao3 feels different because it's nice to have a kudos that says someone read and enjoyed the story. Maybe it's the difference between upvote and downvote. Having the option to just vote something down can get very passive and toxic.

Fan run places would be much better. I guess everything became profitable and money kind of wrecks things.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I really think things were much better when creators made the content they wanted to make and fans either liked it or hated it but weren't being directly catered to. You can't please everyone and if you try the story falls apart.

Exactly. I was just commenting down beyond about this and it seems like it's become more common these days where this happens, and it's really annoying, and deeply disconcerting. Creators should be able to tell the story they want to tell without worrying about how fans will react, if they'll like it, or if they'll be "cancelled" on social media for not doing "X,Y,Z". Don't plan around the reactions of others, let the story play out its natural course.

I've always been perturbed by the way fans interact with actors/creators/celebrities online, and vice versa. Social media really opened the doors to allowing people act like fools, and getting themselves into sticky situations that are entirely avoidable. That power/age imbalance, the crossing of boundaries, crossing that line between simple interaction and downright harassment, it can be very horrible for everyone involved. And when it comes to fandom, I really hate how fans kind of push fandom activities into actors/creators faces like they do, linking fanfiction or fanart, demanding shipping opinions, kind of bringing fandom where it shouldn't be and it honestly makes me cringe so hard because this is not what should be done. That is part of the Golden Rule of fandom as a whole, don't talk about fandom outside of fandom spaces. Fandom is for the fans, not for the actors/creators/etc to see unless they, themselves, actively seek it out.

I miss older internet where it was more content driven vs commodified.

I completely agree. I don't care about follower counts or "likes" or monetizing anything, I just want to connect with people over similar interests. That's it. And I know it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows and it had its own issues, but I really do miss those early Internet days (at least for me, early 00s-ish when I entered the online fandom community). I really want that back.

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

I've seen fans try to introduce fandom work to the actors at conventions and it's always so damn weird. Like no, Katee Sackhoff doesn't need to know about the fanfiction that's written about her. That's weird as fuck. Write it, read it, enjoy it, but don't bring the actors into it.

It also gets enabling for some actors - see Nicholas Brendan who is on Facebook live frequently these days and there are always fans falling over themselves to tell him he's great. Like, the guy is seriously troubled, abuses his partners, and is addicted to drugs - he needs help, not to be told he's perfect.

I wonder if there's a way to try to make LJ communities a thing again. There's A want for that kind of fandom, maybe it could work.

I feel like shows like The Good Place worked so well because the creator had a plan and then did the plan. The minute you try to make big changes for fans it's a mess. This is where fan "cancellation" can be too much. Like absolutely cancel people who are racist, or sexist, or abusers etc. Actually harmful behaviour should be brought to light and not rewarded. But trying to lead social media revolts over a ship or because the story took a turn isn't a great look. I love some shows and really don't like choices they made but at the end of the day I can still like the show.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Remember that trend was going around some years ago where actual interviewers would have printed out excerpts of fanfiction (probably without the author's permission) and had the actors read it aloud during those interviews, just to see their reactions to it? That was just a huge NOPE. I'm glad that trend stopped, but it really was just the beginning of those red flags of crossing those invisible boundaries of fandom versus mainstream.

Write it, read it, enjoy it, but don't bring the actors into it.

Exactly, and I think this is something many people nowadays, especially younger fans, don't really understand anymore and something that we need to kind of bring it back. Again, bring up that fourth wall, reinstate this "fandom is for fans" and that you shouldn't be bringing in anyone outside of that unless they are curious themselves. If an actor or creator wants to look at fanart or read fanfiction, they can go looking for that stuff themselves. Don't bring it to them.

(And I think that is part of why morality is often brought up, because people are so concerned of what actors or creators will say if they see fanfiction written of them and it's like....it wasn't made for them, it was meant for them to read. This is why some older fans kind of want fandom to go back underground, not that we want it to, but we have people truly believing that actors need to see fanfiction and see how truly "degenerate" some fans are and call them out for being "gross" or whatever and it's just so like, twisted and kind of just looking for some wanky drama bait and I'm just so tired. Fandom is a hobby, not a form of activism, not some morality debate for purity nonsense.)

But trying to lead social media revolts over a ship or because the story took a turn isn't a great look. I love some shows and really don't like choices they made but at the end of the day I can still like the show.

Yes, precisely. There is a difference with calling out something because of actual harmful views, versus calling out something just because you don't like a particular ship and falsely accuse it of being "abusive" when it's actually not. Or trying to cancel a creator for not being inclusive enough, or that something isn't "good representation" when that's just subjective, etc. It's tiring and I can understand why a lot of writers/directors/creators out there are tired of "cancel culture" because we are, too, and I wish this whole thing of "this not being good enough by my standards" level of entitlement would just stop. You're doing more harm then good by acting like you're leading this kind of social justice crusade when it's just....your opinion. You're allowed to have it, but others are allowed to have theirs and creators are allowed to create the story they want to tell without being afraid that someone is going to "cancel" them for being less than perfect.

I wonder if there's a way to try to make LJ communities a thing again. There's A want for that kind of fandom, maybe it could work.

Or something similar, because as much as I want LJ to return to its fandom roots I don't think it will. There should be a place that is created by fans for fans, something I've been saying for a long time now and it still rings true. AO3 was created to be that safe haven for fanfiction and fanworks to be protected after so many being burned by sites trying to fuck them over, and we need that kind of atmosphere for the overall fandom community. How to create that space though, idk. Perhaps DreamWidth, since those have fandom communities there and some are still active, and I've seen people on Tumblr recommend DW as a potential option for those who miss journaling communities.

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

OMG what reporter thought that was a good idea. Honestly that just seems like it's aimed to make the actor feel uncomfortable and likely make fun of the fans at the same time which puts the actor into an even worse place because if they go along with saying it's really bad writing or not realistic etc. they risk making fans angry.

Honestly fandom being more separate from the actors sounds like a good thing. Not all fics/art etc. is for everyone. There are plenty of fanfiction things that I don't enjoy, I just avoid those. But they're not for me. If someone likes making them and someone likes reading them that's who they're for. If I were an actor I'd be SO uncomfortable reading things like real person fic or even fic about my character that's pretty much just porn. There's nothing wrong with either of those things, they just aren't meant for the actors.

Judging fandom work and saying things aren't good enough or up to a standard is so shitty. Just let people make things. We all were less talented when we started at anything but people need to practice in order to get better. It's another kind of gatekeeping in fandom and it's just not healthy for fandom growth if people feel shut out.

I'm feeling more and more tempted to try to make a fandom community. I've just not been in fandom as much lately I feel almost like I don't know how/where to start or what fandom to go with. I miss things like icon contests etc. as well as discussions.

Hmmm or maybe something new - there could be a website called The Fourth Wall - and have it be posting boards about all kids of fandoms. No clue how to do such a thing but I like the idea in my head lol.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Re: Mainstream, I thought the whole point of fandom used to be that it wasn't mainstream. Sadly that's definitely not the case, and, well, what you said:

re, the push for not being "weird" or liking "weird things" and to just "be normal"

I've gotten that vibe and just... no. I want to be weird. I spend half my time IRL pretending I'm not the kind of person who gives serious thought to what Hogwarts Houses my friends would be in and plans fannish weddings to fall asleep instead of counting sheep. Fandom used to be such a great place for that.


By breaking that fourth wall, by letting outsiders in and not understanding how the unspoken rules of fandom work, it has really created this hostile environment where people are actually afraid of sharing their likes with the community due to being ostracized and harassed by others who think you should act according to what is "morally/socially acceptable" or whatever. Like, no. Fuck that.

I'm 100% on board with you. Also, can we NOT have "morals" in fandom? Please? I have so many memories of people on my flist or in chatrooms or wherever having conversations they couldn't have IRL because of "morality police." And listen, as you know my fannish interests are vanilla AF, but that does not mean I want everyone else to be vanilla, nor does that mean I have socially conservative views. No way. I like that young people, when I was in fandom, had a space to be themselves in a world that didn't always encourage that, and it hurts my heart to think people who still need that space not being granted it. I did see a bit of it back in the day, especially because of my more vanilla interests, but it disturbs me that it's gained traction. At least when I was in fandom, those people tended to be chased back into the ocean with sporks. *Insert Jack Sparrow meme here*

I can't speak to ageism on tumblr, but I know having been The Kid in fandom once upon a time, I hated feeling condescended to. At the same time, I also remember being a bit dismissive. I think it all came out in different forms than what you're talking about, but either way, I agree both sides need to check themselves

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I've gotten that vibe and just... no. I want to be weird. I spend half my time IRL pretending I'm not the kind of person who gives serious thought to what Hogwarts Houses my friends would be in and plans fannish weddings to fall asleep instead of counting sheep. Fandom used to be such a great place for that.

Yes, exactly.

There is a reason why fandom has been considered a safe haven for people who always felt like outcasts or outsiders of society. It's a reason why most of fandom seem to be occupied by those within the LGBT community, because they were able to find others who wouldn't judge them for who they were. It's always been about that freedom of expression, no matter who you were, where you came from, and the relief of finding a community where you could just be yourself through shared media interests that go beyond the "social norms". Fandom is about being weird, embracing your weirdness, and not being afraid of that side of yourself.

You mentioned online friends having conversations that they wouldn't have been able to have otherwise because it wasn't "safe" for them to do so, whatever their home situation was, is a very important point of that. Trying to push a certain form of morality into fandom is just....not good, it's never good. Safety? Sure, that is definitely needed esp when it comes to social media because we do need certain spaces for people and not just one big area where anyone can join in and see since I think that is part of the overall issue, but never morality. Policing people's interest based on some fucked up version of morality never ends well.

I can't speak to ageism on tumblr, but I know having been The Kid in fandom once upon a time, I hated feeling condescended to. At the same time, I also remember being a bit dismissive. I think it all came out in different forms than what you're talking about, but either way, I agree both sides need to check themselves

I was still a teenager in high school when I first entered the online fandom space, and perhaps it was just the time and the way the Internet was back then, but I never had much of an issue when it came to generational gaps in fandom spaces. Age never really mattered to me, personally. I just wanted to make friends who shared the same fannish interests as me. Also, I knew that I was entering a space where people were probably much older than me, and it never bothered me.

But regardless, nobody should be mocking or harassing anyone, regardless of their age. We live in a completely different era of the Internet now and I think, as much as I don't really care about the ages of fans in the fandom community, we should always check ourselves nonetheless.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

It's a reason why most of fandom seem to be occupied by those within the LGBT community, because they were able to find others who wouldn't judge them for who they were. It's always been about that freedom of expression, no matter who you were, where you came from, and the relief of finding a community where you could just be yourself through shared media interests that go beyond the "social norms". Fandom is about being weird, embracing your weirdness, and not being afraid of that side of yourself.

Yup. And I love that.


ut I never had much of an issue when it came to generational gaps in fandom spaces. Age never really mattered to me, personally. I just wanted to make friends who shared the same fannish interests as me. Also, I knew that I was entering a space where people were probably much older than me, and it never bothered me.

I was deeply insecure, so I'm sure that didn't help, to be fair.

Interesting that you never really noticed age. I guess for me it depended on the interaction itself, either what was being discussed or who I was talking to. But you also couldn't always tell, and you still can't. Actually, I'm not sure how old exactly a lot of people on my flist are, and while I can get an idea, there isn't really a perfect way to measure it.

It never bothered me in the sense of "ew old people," not at all, more that I'd sometimes talk about very... you know, high school things, and realize I was the odd one out. And a few people did make a stink about young fans ruining their spaces.

Policing people's interest based on some fucked up version of morality never ends well.

Nope.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'm not sure how old exactly a lot of people on my flist are, and while I can get an idea, there isn't really a perfect way to measure it.

Unless people are upfront about it (puts their age/the date of their birth in their userinfo bio or in friending memes), you really are in the dark. Of course, with LJ I assume most are either around my age or older, since a lot of younger people are on other platforms.

But I think that's what I like most about the Internet, is the anonymity and not knowing or caring what someone looks like, their age, or any other personal information like that. You mostly connected through mutually shared interests and gradually got to know people better that way. I prefer that part of the online experience, esp the fandom experience. Social media, sadly, has ruined that anonymity aspect because, while people can still be anonymous, there is this certain expectation where you have to share everything from your age, where you're from, etc, in order to be considered valid to be involved in certain discussions. Like, again, I get the safety aspect in un-moderated spaces, but some people are just straight up hostile about it, making it unpleasant for everyone, y'know?

[silverusagi]

I think this is the biggest point I want to make because I feel that fans have become too comfortable with interacting with creators/writers/actors via social media to the point of harassing them, mostly for validation of their own personal needs with a piece of media

On a semi-related note about the fourth wall needing to come back up, I wish creators would just tell their damn stories. There was a recent interview linked by someone on my flist about TVD, and about how the writers just kept trying to make Damon worse and worse because he wasn't landing with the audience right and people kept sympathizing with him. This led them to having Damon 'kill' Jeremy to get the point across that he was bad. And then they were still frustrated that people were idolizing Damon.

It's just like... you can't control audience's reactions. Just tell the story you want to tell.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

It's just like... you can't control audience's reactions. Just tell the story you want to tell.

This has become more uncommon, unfortunately, where creators are looking for the reactions from fans, usually from social media, and decide what they want to do based on the reactions and what some people are very vocal about from there. And I'm just tired and frustrated by this trend, to be honest. Especially when it comes to changing something (be in a twist or an ending) just because the fans figured it out. It's insulting the intelligence of your fanbase when you do that. I think it was revealed that this happened recently with the D+ MCU shows, specifically with Wandavision, where they were dictating what they wanted to do through fan reactions on social media, scrapping a storyline or cameo that was supposed to happen and many fans felt cheated when they learned this.

Furthermore, fans aren't a monolith, we all have our own thoughts and opinions on what is happening in a story. Just because one side of a fandom wants something to happen, doesn't mean other parts of the fandom do. If you only listen to a loud faction of the fandom, you're alienating everyone else. And if you try to appease everyone, your story becomes of jumbled up mess that nobody likes in the end.

So yeah, creators shouldn't listen to fanbases, especially on social media. Just...tell the story as it was originally supposed to be intended. Yes, there may be other outside forces such as the higher ups demanding certain things beyond their control and that's another problem entirely, but if they're able to not listen to fans they really shouldn't. There is a time and a place to listen to criticize and take that into account when it's necessary, but don't rewrite based on the opinions of certain fans.

[silverusagi]

And I'm just tired and frustrated by this trend, to be honest. Especially when it comes to changing something (be in a twist or an ending) just because the fans figured it out.

This is definitely annoying. Writers shouldn't get so precious about their ~surprise storylines. If you're writing something huge, like GoT or MCU, and you've got thousands of people speculating on the smallest details week by week, chances are, some of them are going to figure it out. That doesn't mean it's bad storytelling, it just means that few things get past the hivemind.

And if you try to appease everyone, your story becomes of jumbled up mess that nobody likes in the end.

I feel like this happens on so many shows where shipping is such a huge part of things. TVD, True Blood, etc. Instead of telling a story, they bait each side of fandom and have the protagonist get with both guys but never really commit. Of course, both of these were based on books, but the books do the same thing, because of worries about alienating one side of the fanbase.

[verdande-mi.livejournal.com]

A better fandom platform would be great, somewhere where a sense of community is actually felt. I am also very much in agreement about the fourth wall, in some cases it can be fun and cool, but too often it just the opposite and people grow entitled and want things just so. Yes to weirdness, being outside the norms and pushing some boundaries, and creating somewhere to be creative and a safe place to read about and discuss different topics.