Just something I've been pondering

[rogueslayer452]

I've been wondering about Castiel and his powers. It seems the general consensus of fandom thinks that Castiel has been losing his powers bit by bit since he returned, I've seen this being referenced a lot in fics and also in fandom discussions. However, are Castiel's powers really dwindling away?


He said in the beginning of the season that he's been cut off from Heaven so there are certain things he doesn't have full capability of doing such as healing and time travel. This doesn't necessarily mean his powers are slowly draining away from him episode by episode. If that were true, he would have been completely weakened by now. Instead, in the last episode Castiel seemed to possess a bit more power than we've seen from him in previous episodes, and perhaps even more badass than when he did have full capability of his powers from last season. So in my view from this, Castiel is only limited to certain abilities rather than losing them, as he's already stated in 5.02, since I'm sure to him this does feel like he's been weakened or made helpless because of being cut off from his home, but certainly not weak as in feeling his Grace drained from him. As for the 2014 future!Castiel, it's my belief that when the angels had left and Lucifer took power that is when he became completely powerless and "no longer an angel" (at least somewhat, he's still an angel just trapped inside a human vessel). Not before, not along the way, but in the moment when Lucifer had taken control did that occur. And even though we're now seeing Castiel subtly become humanized by his mannerisms with each passing episode, he still has BAMF skills and his some of his powers intact.

Overall, from what I've observed, I think with the knowledge of him having limited access to certain abilities people are confusing that with him losing more of his powers, especially since we've seen over the course of this season just to what extent does this limit him to.

Now I don't know if there's been any kind of articles or interviews explaining whether he is or isn't gradually losing his angel powers, since I don't read anything that could have potential spoilers in them so I don't know if this has already been discussed or confirmed or whatever. These are just my thoughts and opinions on the matter.


This is just me, having thinky-thoughts at like, early in the morning. And it has to do with Castiel, go figure. Heh.

Comments

[vichan.livejournal.com]

I think strangecharm just recently had the same thoughts, and there's a super long discussion about it over on her journal.

I'm one of those that's pretty much on the fence over it, only because of the scene in 5.10 where he figured out he couldn't do the 'hand-to-forehead' demon gank any longer when he was trapped in the fire with Meg. It seemed like he knew some of his powers would be diminished (he knew he couldn't heal Bobby), but losing the power to kill demons seemed like a complete surprise to him. Did he know he would lose some powers and not others? That's ringing weird in my head.

As for the argument for him not losing his powers, they're all lined up here already. However, I don't think him being able to sense what Heaven is doing is an argument for him not losing them - Anna could hear the angels, too, when she was still human. I think angels are just loud.

And like I said - I'm on the fence, mostly 'cuz we haven't gotten a definite answer either way. :)


_{I haven't had coffee yet.}

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Interestingly, what happened in 5.10 is exactly what happened in 4.10 when Castiel discovered he couldn't gank Alastair, as well. But back then he truly was surprised at his lack of ganking demons, Alastair in particular, since he was in full angelic power. Could it be because Alastair was stronger or more powerful? I don't know. However in "Abandon All Hope" he didn't have that same surprised or shocked expression on his face, which means he probably already knew he couldn't or knew there was a possibility he lost such ability, seeing as how killing demons that way is connected with the Host of Heaven, so he had an alternative plan of action by throwing her down in the fire.

And yes, even angels who have supposedly fallen or have been cut off still are able to have that certain connection with the rest of the angels in Heaven. Which is further evidence to me at how collective the angels really are, at least in certain aspects.

I think this is an interesting topic of discussion to have, especially since there's nothing that confirms or denies either side. It makes my brain all tingly with thinky thoughts. ;)

[vichan.livejournal.com]

I always got a different impression from that scene - he couldn't gank Alistair because of how powerful he was.

Meg, on the other hand, is just a run-o-the-mill demon. The audience gets to see Castiel try to kill her and fail, and then hear Meg vocally point out that he wasn't able to kill her. From a story-telling standpoint, that's telling me that it's as much of a surprise to Castiel as it is to the audience. What are the writers trying to tell the audience with that? They'd already established episodes before that he'd been weakened by abandoning Heaven, so why did they need to do it again? Why didn't he just throw her into the fire right away?

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

What are the writers trying to tell the audience with that? They'd already established episodes before that he'd been weakened by abandoning Heaven, so why did they need to do it again? Why didn't he just throw her into the fire right away?

The thing I find with Supernatural and its writing is that there are times when they need to rehash certain things, sometimes in a repetitive format, as they've done with the brothers and their issues multiple times. Perhaps they needed to reestablish that with Meg taunting Castiel about no longer being connected with Heaven. But even so, I understand how that can be something that Castiel could have been like "oh yeah" about not having that ability, even though I still think he kinda already suspected. Which is why if Plan A doesn't work, he had a Plan B.

Also, I think he didn't throw her in the fire immediately was to tell the audience that yes, he may be cut off from Heaven, but he's still a cunning BAMF who is becoming more resourceful even without Heaven's assistance.

[vichan.livejournal.com]

I see Castiel losing his powers as something significantly different from the the boys' emotional issues - the writers will often use the trope of having other characters speak for Sam and Dean (it's a convenient way of avoiding all those 'chick flick' moments, even though we get plenty of those, anyway :D). Castiel hasn't made his losing his powers something emotional yet (aside from 5.04 and the "I used to belong to a much better club" line). He's actually painting it as nothing more than an inconvenience, and not something he's getting bent out of shape over.

Which - hell, that's an argument supporting both sides. :D

Eh, my point - it makes no sense to me that the writers would reestablish something we already know when it's not something like "Dean is losing all hope" or "Sam's got addiction issues." It makes sense when we get that for something emotionally affecting a character that a certain character wouldn't talk about otherwise.

Of course, the writers are known for giving us pointless anvils, so maybe they just did it there.

And hell, I think I find Castiel gradually losing his powers to be an absolutely fascinating potential storyline, so I'm probably biased. :D

[silverusagi]

what happened in 4.10 when Castiel discovered he couldn't gank Alastair, as well

You know, I was thinking about the Alastair thing earlier. Castiel sure got beat up a lot in S4, didn't he? Uriel, Alastair... And now he's killing angels like nobody's business. But I think in S4, he relied too much on his powers (like with Alastair), whereas now he knows he has to fight dirty, strike quick, and take no prisoners. Also, I think he was sort of willing to die for what he believed in with Uriel, and now he knows that if he dies, there's no one left to fight the fight. So he's 100% BAMF, and he's alwways ON. And everyone IS out to get him, so he's not so much in "holy, smiting angel of the Lord mode" anymore, but "sneaky, cunning, kill them first" mode.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

YES. THIS, EXACTLY.

The fact that Castiel is proving to be more resourceful and more badass than he ever has been when he was part of Heaven's forces says at lot about where his character is now. He's not weakened, he's not losing any more of his powers or abilities. He's just becoming a survivalist and a fighter for what he believes in rather than what he used to believe in, which he found out was underneath a pretense last season, and without relying on Heaven's power to help him in times of crisis he has to find alternative ways of dealing with situations. He's definitely all, "bring it on!" to anything right now, and I kinda love that about him this season. THIS IS MY BAMF ANGEL Y'ALL. ♥