:/

[rogueslayer452]

The Acolyte was cancelled.

On one hand, it wasn't something I was interested in so I didn't watch it.

However, on the other hand, that means there will be no more incredibly sexy Sith!Manny Jacinto.

Yes, I know I can see him being amazingly talented and hot in other things, but Qimir was such an fascinating and intriguing character. I didn't watch the show directly but I have seen his scenes online, and there was a lot going on there that was introduced that I wanted to sink my teeth into that potential. He had this presence that was charismatic yet calm and charming, something quite alluring yet dangerous, and there were layers to his character that we barely got a chance to peel back and it makes me yearn to learn more about him, and now we'll never get the chance to. Unless Qimir appears in another Star Wars property to have his story be told, that is. Manny ate that role up, he obviously put a lot of thought and effort into that character so it sucks that this had to happen, especially since the cancellation was announced on his birthday. Could be a mere coincidence, but still, the audacity.

What's pissing me off, though, is the way some are acting. I don't pay attention to the Star Wars fandom, but upon reading comments from some of the places where this was announced (big mistake, btw) so many were gleefully celebrating its cancellation. Most were probably the ones already bashing and negative review bombing the show from the jump, but a lot of it were just disgruntled Star Wars fans who didn't like it and got swept up in the hate bandwagon.

I think this is why I'm feeling weirdly upset by this, even though I didn't watch the show and was only invested in one aspect of it. Imagine enjoying a show, it being cancelled, and then finding out a lot of loud people online are celebrating its cancellation, saying things like "good riddance" and "they took the trash out" and calling anyone who liked it stupid. Regardless how one personally feels about a piece of media, that is deeply immature and not okay. I know that I've been guilty of this kind of attitude myself in the past, and it's why I actively try to be more mindful when expressing my feelings about something. Because I know what it feels like from the other side, and it's horrible. Even if you think something is objectively bad, there's always going to be someone out there somewhere who genuinely truly does enjoy and love it, flaws and all. You can have your opinions, just don't be an asshole about it. It really should be that simple, but alas, it's the Internet. Mob mentality is a poison no matter where you are.

I also think this speaks about how bad the current state of television is right now on streaming platforms. It's also a prime example of why I'm wary of getting into any new US shows these days. One season with eight episodes before getting cancelled and/or possibly being removed from the service with no physical media to be released. Why bother get invested at all?

Comments

[silverusagi]

There was some of this when OFMD was cancelled, where people were happy because 'the fandom was annoying' or because they didn't think it was that good.

[author_by_night]

Urgh, I know. Drives me nuts. Also, I hate when people assume the loudest, most obnoxious parts of a fandom = the entire fandom. I never actually saw that much drama. It was mostly people posting .gifs of the series, posting metas, and linking to their fics. I'm not saying there wasn't drama, but there's something to be said for curating your experience. I think I did find one tumblr that seemed Very Drama, but I just didn't follow it.

or because they didn't think it was that good.

And I don't GET that one. You didn't like it. Okay? Good for you? It's fine to not like something, it's not fine to act as though because you don't like the thing, no one else should like the thing.

[silverusagi]

Oh, it wasn't because drama. People were annoyed because OFMD fans were very loud about how much they loved the show, and and how fans were shouting that the show was unique in how it approached queer stories, and how OFMD was everywhere all of a sudden.

[author_by_night]

...oh, FFS. People being batshit about OFMD was why I got into it. What is this cool show everyone loves? And even when I don't like something, I actually enjoy seeing other people enjoy it. I dunno. People need to let other people like what they like.

[rogueslayer452]

Some people can be unnecessarily petty. :/

[rhoda_rants]

Aw, boo! I just got caught up, too. :(

I wonder if it's not the reviews so much as view counts. I doubt Disney takes review-bombing that seriously; a stream is a stream, whether someone's hate-watching or not.

I thought it was fantastic, but I can definitely see why it would be harder for fans to connect to. Requires a lot more nuance and contemplation to see what they were doing than a lot of people are willing to put in.

ETA: Okay, coming back in because my brain literally just put it together that Manny Jacinto is Jason Mendoza AS WELL AS Qimir. Holy shit, that man is an amazing actor.

[rogueslayer452]

True. There's been many cases of shows being renewed despite negative reviews and reactions. Apparently the viewership dipped towards the end and perhaps that's the reason why (adding in how expensive it was to produce), but by how much measured by the other Star Wars D+ shows I don't know. And the fact that this is the first Star Wars show cancelled by D+ only shortly after the season ended is bewildering to me.

Even if the show had its flaws, I think people were way too harsh on it. Having critiques is fine, but the straight-up hate directed towards it was completely uncalled for and unwarranted.

Okay, coming back in because my brain literally just put it together that Manny Jacinto is Jason Mendoza AS WELL AS Qimir. Holy shit, that man is an amazing actor.

Hee, yeah, I had the same kind of reaction too. Obviously he's been in other things than The Good Place and he is an actor after all, but Qimir and Jason are such polar opposites it's amazing how good he is.

[rhoda_rants]

I honestly haven't seen most of the criticisms; my fandom sphere has been full of people yelling, "It's so good, please watch it!" so I'm even more mystified. Like, fans complaining about Star Wars has been a thing since the 80s. It's never slowed down the franchise before, so why would it now?

---

[rogueslayer452]

I'm mainly a casual watcher of Star Wars so I've avoided the toxic side of the fanbase for the most part. I had heard rumblings of the criticisms, some valid while others just harsh and mean-spirited, and it wasn't until recently that when reading the news I saw how bad people were talking about it. But like you, in my curated fannish circle I've only seen mostly positive things about the show, and especially after the reveal of Qimir being Sith that definitely spiked people's interest in my corner, for sure. So it's truly like day and night when it comes to the reactions I've seen.

[rhoda_rants]

I can't even imagine what people wouldn't like about it. The fight scenes are better, the storytelling and writing are better, and the characters are amazing even though they're unfamiliar to us. I guess the parts where they're forced to shoehorn in annoying bits of the Official Lore (like midichlorians) are something, and there's that one character who's clearly supposed to be a collectible toy, but other than that? Like, what's their problem?

[rogueslayer452]

From what I know of the Star Wars fanbase, there is no winning or appeasing them. They'll find something, anything, to complain about, even if it's something very mild it'll be treated like it's the biggest offense to the franchise ever. Even with legitimate criticisms those will be drowned out by the nasty hate comments that flood every review, every comment section, social media outlets, etc.

[rhoda_rants]

Haha, that is very true. I used to be much more adamant about what Star Wars should and could be than I am now. Meeting someone who genuinely loved the prequel trilogy and made good arguments in its favor changed my mind. Plus, just deciding the "canon" is dealer's choice and not worrying about it if the official channels add something I think is silly.

And like Star Wars IS silly. It is a silly franchise. It's a space story with wizards and magic in it, and also a surprising amount of heart and pathos. But it's still very silly when you look at the details too hard. People who forget that tend to ruin it for me.

[rogueslayer452]

And like Star Wars IS silly. It is a silly franchise. It's a space story with wizards and magic in it, and also a surprising amount of heart and pathos. But it's still very silly when you look at the details too hard. People who forget that tend to ruin it for me.

Yeah, I think the ones that focus too hard on the "original canon" forget that the original canon was essentially just....space wizards. That's it. Everything else kind of grew from that, and that's why there's been so many arguments of what is considered "canon" because whatever lore has appeared depends on the era of SW content and what someone personally prefers. It's not that serious, and those who do take it too seriously to the point where they think anything that goes against what they feel is "proper" canon tend to be the most aggressive and ruin the fun for everyone else.

Like, there are genuine criticisms to be had with the way Disney has been handling the IP for sure, but what I've seen they're misdirecting that frustration and just taking the piss out on the stories trying something new, the fans who enjoyed it, and attacking the actors involved.

[author_by_night]

That really sucks for Manny Jacinto. :/

though I didn't watch the show and was only invested in one aspect of it. Imagine enjoying a show, it being cancelled, and then finding out a lot of loud people online are celebrating its cancellation, saying things like "good riddance" and "they took the trash out" and calling anyone who liked it stupid. Regardless how one personally feels about a piece of media, that is deeply immature and not okay.

Agreed. That's very hurtful.

And yeah, like you I've done that, for which I feel bad. I will say that for me it was projection, and I think that's often just it. People projecting. As well as the mob mentality of it all

to be someone out there somewhere who genuinely truly does enjoy and love it, flaws and all. You can have your opinions, just don't be an asshole about it

Agreed! You can even express them kindly. Just let it go. You don't like it, that's fine, other people did.

Also, if a popular media suddenly becomes problematic, maybe don't use the time to celebrate that you always knew the fave was stupid anyway. Other people's yum being yucked is not a cause for celebration, just because you never found it yummy. It's one thing to talk about why it's actually problematic, another to act as though never having liked something in the first place makes you superior. It doesn't.

s. One season with eight episodes before getting cancelled and/or possibly being removed from the service with no physical media to be released. Why bother get invested at all?

Yeah, it's frustrating. At least network TV still usually has at least more than eight episodes, though now that I think about it, the trend is still maybe 14-20 episodes as opposed to 20-24, which does make a difference. I was rewatching a CW show on Netflix, because it's leaving Netflix soon (at least you can buy DVDs, except I don't have a player), and 22 episodes makes a world of difference. Streaming could do that, but it doesn't.

[rogueslayer452]

And yeah, like you I've done that, for which I feel bad. I will say that for me it was projection, and I think that's often just it. People projecting. As well as the mob mentality of it all

Yeah, I look back and feel ashamed with my behavior. It's definitely projection, and feeling the need to be a part of something, and sadly hate and negativity is a common thing that unites people online. We see it everywhere to varying degrees, it's easy to get swept up in that kind of behavior and mentality.

It's one thing to talk about why it's actually problematic, another to act as though never having liked something in the first place makes you superior. It doesn't.

Exactly. I see this a lot and it's so frustrating. I don't trust anyone who does this, because they're adding nothing to the conversation aside from acting smugly superior. It's like suddenly something (or someone) being revealed as problematic gives them the excuse to be a dick when they previously couldn't before. It's not impressive, it's not cool. It just makes you look like an immature asshole, especially if they're bullying and harassing people who do still like something.

and 22 episodes makes a world of difference. Streaming could do that, but it doesn't.

Seriously. I don't know why that is, because it didn't start out that way, but somehow streaming shows ended up getting shorter and shorter and now it's become the standard model. And it's not really working. Longer seasons with a regular scheduled release dates (and not waiting years in between seasons) are better to keep the audience engaged and to keep the story flowing much better. The kicker is that with The Acolyte, it was a half-hour show with eight episodes. So the show was only four hours its entire runtime. That is not enough time to allow the story and characters to breathe and grow.

[author_by_night]

It's definitely projection, and feeling the need to be a part of something,

IRL I was very careful to avoid conflict, and I think I overcompensated by being brusque and snarky online. So that was some of it. But so was being part of something. I was part of very critical and snarky online circles, and the behavior rubbed off on me, to the point where it seemed somewhat normal.

r. The kicker is that with The Acolyte, it was a half-hour show with eight episodes. So the show was only four hours its entire runtime. That is not enough time to allow the story and characters to breathe and grow.

Wow. That really is not enough time. WTF.

[pianogurl330]

I just finished The Acolyte this pass weekend. Qimir was an interesting character and had so much potential. I felt that it got hate over stupid reasons and I agree that fans seemed to get on the hate bad wagon. For me, I didn't like it because I found the story boring and confusing but my husband liked it.

[rogueslayer452]

Yeah, the majority of the legitimate criticisms that I saw was mostly about the awkward pacing which left much to be desired, but otherwise the worst offense was the show being slow and that it wasn't as engaging to the audience as it probably should have been, especially given how it was a half hour eight episode show, you'd think they would've planned things better. But seeing the massive amounts of hate and bashing it got, so much of it was unwarranted and undeserved.

[blakmagjick]

"Why bother get invested at all?"
I've been feeling like that with a lot of shows recently, I've been waiting to get into newer stuff cause I don't wanna get invested like you said, only to not be able to watch any more of it.

[rogueslayer452]

I've said this before, but this is why I've been getting into Asian dramas more often. Most of them are only one season, and although there can be downsides (rushed endings, pacing issues, the drama being pulled due to censorship or other problems) you're still likely guaranteed to see it through to its intended ending. It's not always perfect, but at least I know what I'm getting into and it's all done.

U.S. shows have slagged off significantly over the years due to the whole streaming wars nonsense and the current streaming model of eight episode seasons. It makes it harder to get excited for something potentially interesting if it's just going to get cancelled, with the possibility of it being deleted entirely from the streaming service altogether as if it never existed.

[elizalavelle]

I am behind in watching almost everything so I haven't started The Acolyte yet. It is on my list primarily because of Manny Jacinto.

The Star Wars fandom always seems to be a mess. Especially if any characters are women and not attractive to whatever standards the fandom has decided is the standard. It's really gross.

As I get older I really dislike the idea of saying something that someone loves is terrible. Especially when it's not something harmful. Just let people enjoy things.

Agree on the streaming issue. I want a full season of something. A show needs time to get settled and cancelling things right out of the gate sucks. There's also the need for the ratings to be great right away and just ... there are so many shows to watch. I can't watch everything as it airs. Maybe the streaming services should start funding Universal Basic income. People can indulge in shows more if they have more time.

[rogueslayer452]

Especially if any characters are women and not attractive to whatever standards the fandom has decided is the standard. It's really gross.

The way the fandom has treated the actors of this franchise is disgusting. I don't know if this happened in the original trilogy, but ever since the prequels the fans have been ruthless towards the actors for ridiculous reasons. Bullying the kid in Phantom Menace, harassing Daisy and Kelly Marie Tran to the point where they deleted their social media accounts, making racist statements to John Boyega, and now Amandla Stenberg is getting so much hate on her Instagram. Just, absolutely deplorable behavior. No matter how one feels about a piece of media, attacking the actors is never okay. Sadly, women and WOC/POC often get the worst of it.

As I get older I really dislike the idea of saying something that someone loves is terrible. Especially when it's not something harmful. Just let people enjoy things.

There is this weird power play of trying to gloat that their opinion on something matters more, as if what they're saying is fact rather than just a personal preference, and anyone who disagrees with them, well, they just got to prove them wrong by any means necessary. It's strange and also just exhausting. Dislike what you want, but leave people alone to like what they like. At the end of the day, who cares?

There's also the need for the ratings to be great right away and just ... there are so many shows to watch. I can't watch everything as it airs.

Yeah, the pressure of watching everything now and for it to be an immediate hit and be good right from the start is not realistic. There have been many amazing shows in the past that started off slow but gradually gained traction before finding its identity. That's not possible now, with eight episode seasons you hardly get a chance to develop anything that keeps the audience engaged or to care about the characters or what is happening. I don't know where I saw this, but I've read that streaming shows often film like a movie and spread across eight episodes, and that would explain how awkward some pacing can be in these shows. They're not filmed the way network television shows are, where there are specific beats and cues of how an episode is made. These are meant to be binged rather than spread out with weekly releases, and unfortunately for something like The Acolyte I think having weekly releases did hurt it because of how the pacing was, which was a common complaint I saw a lot.

It's just, everything is a mess in general with the way streaming is. It's too short, too many shows released at once and having this pressure of it having amazing viewing numbers or else it'll be cancelled/removed from the platform and deleted and pretended like it never existed. That is so discouraging, not just as a viewer but I'm sure as a creator and actor. Imagine putting all your hard work and talent and passion into something and then it just disappearing because apparently it didn't meet whatever invisible quota for the service you're on.

[violateraindrop]

Manny was amazing. A second season concentrating on his character and him training a future generation of Sith could have been so good. The show did a passable job of showing us that Jedi are not all good, but they could have gone a step further and deepen the Sith lore, making the fans really question whose side they are on. But overall the writing was just not good to pull that of either. Someone I follow on Tumblr who is definitely not a toxic Star Wars fan or "anti-woke" seemed genuinely upset by how bad the writing was. I suspect none of us normal fans wanted it to fail.

In addition to Manny's character, I'm also disappointed to not see David Harewood again. He could have played an interesting role as a politician who wants more control over the Jedi.