Fandom ups and downs.
Aug. 13th, 2021 08:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rogueslayer452Taken from the Crunchy Questions Meme:
What are some improvements that have occurred within the fandom community over the years? What are things that you wish would cease or that people would stop doing?
I would say one improvement would probably be the ceasing of snark communities, where the entire purpose was to mock fans, particularly younger fans, for the fanworks they created. Now, I enjoy a good snark, but the lines can blur easily into just being plain mean-spirited and unfortunately that's what a lot of those communities ended up becoming. And looking back, while it can be fun to mock mainstream entertainment MST3k-style it's not a good idea to do that with fan-created works, especially without their knowledge or permission which was sadly very common back in the day. I have no doubt that stuff like this still exists, since hate communities in general still exist no matter the platform, it's just not as widely known or accessible as it used to be back in the day, which is good. Fandom is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, and seeing hate towards fans, even in a mocking way, can be incredibly discouraging.
I also think that blatant internalized misogyny has lessened over the years. It obviously still does exist, unfortunately, but I also think there's more conversation surrounding the topic of defending female characters (and actresses/performers/creators/etc) and examining this kind of toxic mindset. There's less mockery of Mary Sues, bashing of female characters in fanfiction is greatly frowned upon, and so on.
At the same time, though, I do think that while some things have improved much has also remained the same, just repackaged differently with the social climate we're currently in.
Like yes, internalized misogyny has lessened in certain fandom circles, but it has also created this toxic positive mentality where no criticism or examination of the flaws and nuances of female characters should exist, that women, fictional and real alike, are queens and flawless goddesses that can do no wrong, which is just incredibly dehumanizing and is just as bad as outright hating on them for no reason. This is doubly so for WOC, as well, which yes racism in fandom is still a massive problem that needs to be addressed but this is not the way of combatting it. There are other examples of this, but essentially the gist is that we went from one extreme to a complete 180 into another extreme which is rather counterproductive in fandom spaces where discussions of these particular topics need to be addressed rather than brushed aside or treated like some shallow hot take on social media, be it internalized misogyny/homophobia, generational gaps in the overall fandom community, attitudes towards fanworks vs mainstream media and the influence they both have as a whole, etc. The latter especially since it is very much tied with purity culture, which needs to be eradicated, as far as I'm concerned. Purity culture, and all it entails, has done nothing good for anyone, fandom and non-fandom alike, and seeing so many people repeat these ideologies and views across all sorts of places is deeply concerning to me, to be honest.
So yeah, I think that this gradual shift within the fandom community over the years has been something that has been bothering me for a long time. Whether or not this was the natural state of progression of fandom as platforms and online interaction changed, who knows, it could very well have been inevitable. So while I think some things have improved, other things really haven't, either having gotten worse or more or less remained the same. I do think that, with all things, it will always fluctuate as time goes on, we'll have our ups and downs, improvements and setbacks.
So yeah, this kind of got long, longer than I initially intended, and it's not even everything that I wanted to include because I do have specific examples that I wanted to get into more with things that do need more improvement within the online fandom community, but that will have to wait for another day. I had certain thoughts I needed to write out, I just hope that it was coherent enough to make sense.
What are some improvements that have occurred within the fandom community over the years? What are things that you wish would cease or that people would stop doing?
I would say one improvement would probably be the ceasing of snark communities, where the entire purpose was to mock fans, particularly younger fans, for the fanworks they created. Now, I enjoy a good snark, but the lines can blur easily into just being plain mean-spirited and unfortunately that's what a lot of those communities ended up becoming. And looking back, while it can be fun to mock mainstream entertainment MST3k-style it's not a good idea to do that with fan-created works, especially without their knowledge or permission which was sadly very common back in the day. I have no doubt that stuff like this still exists, since hate communities in general still exist no matter the platform, it's just not as widely known or accessible as it used to be back in the day, which is good. Fandom is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, and seeing hate towards fans, even in a mocking way, can be incredibly discouraging.
I also think that blatant internalized misogyny has lessened over the years. It obviously still does exist, unfortunately, but I also think there's more conversation surrounding the topic of defending female characters (and actresses/performers/creators/etc) and examining this kind of toxic mindset. There's less mockery of Mary Sues, bashing of female characters in fanfiction is greatly frowned upon, and so on.
At the same time, though, I do think that while some things have improved much has also remained the same, just repackaged differently with the social climate we're currently in.
Like yes, internalized misogyny has lessened in certain fandom circles, but it has also created this toxic positive mentality where no criticism or examination of the flaws and nuances of female characters should exist, that women, fictional and real alike, are queens and flawless goddesses that can do no wrong, which is just incredibly dehumanizing and is just as bad as outright hating on them for no reason. This is doubly so for WOC, as well, which yes racism in fandom is still a massive problem that needs to be addressed but this is not the way of combatting it. There are other examples of this, but essentially the gist is that we went from one extreme to a complete 180 into another extreme which is rather counterproductive in fandom spaces where discussions of these particular topics need to be addressed rather than brushed aside or treated like some shallow hot take on social media, be it internalized misogyny/homophobia, generational gaps in the overall fandom community, attitudes towards fanworks vs mainstream media and the influence they both have as a whole, etc. The latter especially since it is very much tied with purity culture, which needs to be eradicated, as far as I'm concerned. Purity culture, and all it entails, has done nothing good for anyone, fandom and non-fandom alike, and seeing so many people repeat these ideologies and views across all sorts of places is deeply concerning to me, to be honest.
So yeah, I think that this gradual shift within the fandom community over the years has been something that has been bothering me for a long time. Whether or not this was the natural state of progression of fandom as platforms and online interaction changed, who knows, it could very well have been inevitable. So while I think some things have improved, other things really haven't, either having gotten worse or more or less remained the same. I do think that, with all things, it will always fluctuate as time goes on, we'll have our ups and downs, improvements and setbacks.
So yeah, this kind of got long, longer than I initially intended, and it's not even everything that I wanted to include because I do have specific examples that I wanted to get into more with things that do need more improvement within the online fandom community, but that will have to wait for another day. I had certain thoughts I needed to write out, I just hope that it was coherent enough to make sense.
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Re: Pt 1
Date: 2021-08-16 03:28 pm (UTC)This is something that I think most people, myself included, need to tell themselves more often. You might try a piece of media but once you realize that it's not to your tastes, just leave it be and move on. No need to publicly bash it and label it "bad" just because you didn't like it. Some things just aren't made for you, and that's okay. Find something else that is.
(It's kind of why I don't really watch those "this [piece of media] sucks" videos on YouTube anymore because, even if it's entertaining to watch or that the person is making good points that you agree on because you felt the same way, at the end of the day what purpose is that video serving? It's one thing to constructively critique a piece of media, it's another to basically say, "this sucks and here's why nobody should watch it" which, while I'm sure it's just a person venting and they can't really control what their audience does with the information that they hear in the video, because people will just take things at face value and not give anything else a second thought, but idk, a lot of the time those videos tend to rub me the wrong way these days for the exact reason of perhaps the simple explanation is that it just wasn't for you? idk)
RE: Re: Pt 1
Date: 2021-08-17 01:09 pm (UTC)Yeah, I like the ones where they have valid criticisms but also point out what the movie did well.
I agree that it's sometimes obvious the media just wasn't for them to begin with. That always frustrates me.
I also get frustrated when people talk about book based movies without having read the source material. I see The Princess Diaries mocked a lot, and while I agree the movies weren't the books, the second one was pretty awful IMHO, I'd prefer to see criticism from someone who also grew up reading the series. Though that's not really their fault.
I mean, I even have that issue with some critics of religion online. I have no problem with criticizing extremists, with criticizing fundamentalists, but some of those vloggers get into "and here's why any belief is stupid" territory. At the end of the day, some beliefs just don't align with yours, and there's a difference between all religion being bad and actual bad that comes out of religion. I think we can certainly talk about microaggressions that have a religious bent, but then you're still talking about intolerance. I have beliefs I know those vloggers would say are weird and unscientific, but they're mine and I can't help it. My point is, that's another thing people may not be into, but that doesn't make it inherently bad.
(I even had to stop watching one vlogger because he started talking about how all Muslims are extremists. Nope. Bye.)
Re: Pt 1
Date: 2021-08-22 08:47 pm (UTC)Exactly, where they are objective and look at both the negative and positive things while critiquing instead of just the negative parts. Or even talk about what they, personally, would have preferred to see. I find those fascinating because it shows that they're able to enjoy something even if it's flawed, or even admit that it wasn't for them but doesn't talk down about it, which is an unfortunate thing that many reviewers often do.
When I guess when we're talking about things like YouTube, videos that are ranting/negative tend to get more views so it's understandable that there would be more of that type than ones that review or talk about things fairly.
I also get frustrated when people talk about book based movies without having read the source material.
I view books and their adaptations to be two separate entities, so I'm not overly bothered by that if people review or talk about a movie and haven't read the source material. Because I've done the same thing, myself, sometimes without really knowing. However, it is definitely frustrating whenever I know the source material and an adaptation is, in my opinion, is incredibly shitty because it missed the point of the message and story and people end up praising the movie version more than talking about the importance of the book, or comparing/contrasting things, like what a movie enhanced from the book or what the book did better, etc. Because while I know it is commonly said that "the book is better than the movie", sometimes it's fascinating to look at both and see what both did good, what they didn't do well, etc, since different mediums can enhance the story depending on its intended audience, and not seeing people talking about that stuff when taking into account adaptations of a certain source material is really disappointing.
And, like yeah, it's not their fault because they haven't read the book to compare it, or prefer the movie to the book because that happens sometimes, different preferences and all of that, but still. I guess I prefer that deeper conversation that not many are willing to have. And again, that's fine, but I wish there was more analysis of those types out there that can get into the grit of it all on that level, y'know?