The Britney Spears situation.

[rogueslayer452]

Everything surrounding the Britney Spears conservatorship situation has left me incredibly emotional. Without repeating what most people have said about it, I think overall that what was revealed by Britney herself during her testimony gave us a better understanding of the abuse she's been suffering for thirteen years underneath her conservatorship, stuff that has only been merely speculated for years by others that has now finally been officially confirmed directly from Britney herself. It is horrific, even more so knowing that this is very commonplace when seeing the abuse and neglect that happens to those who are also underneath a conservatorship.

I admit to not knowing much about conservatorships before much of what's been revealed recently, but I knew that whatever was happening with Britney wasn't good for her well-being, and learning more about it in general and what others say about it and how it's often handled, or mishandled, is truly upsetting.

I want Britney to win. I want her to get out of her conservatorship once and for all and to sue her family and everyone else involved in her abuse, and I want her to live her life. I've been a fan of Britney since the beginning, since her debut, and yes I love her as an artist and as a performer, but I also respect her as a human being and she deserves to be happy, and if that means the possibility of her retiring permanently from the entertainment industry altogether? So be it. Let her have her freedom, her autonomy, her goddamn rights as a human being.

But moreover, I want this conversation to continue because, as Britney even states herself, she is just one example of someone being abused while in such a situation, and if someone as famous and beloved as Britney Spears has been suffering from this and been denied and treated so unjustly for years, imagine the countless of other cases of everyday people who just get outright ignored. From the elderly to the disabled to those who suffer from mental illness who are being mistreated and not taken seriously because of their conditions, because the people around them are taking advantage of them when they are vulnerable, etc. The unfortunate thing is that despite it being horrifically inhumane it is still legal, however just because it is considered legal doesn't mean that it cannot be challenged and changed. Laws are not written in stone, and I think with Britney Spears situation it has shed light on a bigger issue that needs to be talked about and addressed. And I hope that Britney wins and breaks free, not just for her sake, but also so that this advocates for more cases like hers to be challenged and brought to light.

I don't know, I have a lot of thoughts on this and it's very jumbled up since I know that it's a complicated issue, it's not going to be simple. But I'm just very emotional about it because hearing the kinds of things she's gone through, how she feels, and how others have felt about being mistreated and basically unheard by those around them when they need help, it breaks my heart.

Comments

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I was not a Britney fan at all. I made fun of her back then. I feel rather shitty about it now, the horrible things I said about her. I feel like Britney was turned into a meme pretty quickly, and I've read it was all because she never got to use her own voice.

I'm not saying I should've loved her music — it wasn't what I was into as a teen. But the slut shaming. The calling her stupid. Just, shit.



But moreover, I want this conversation to continue because, as Britney even states herself, she is just one example of someone being abused while in such a situation, and if someone as famous and beloved as Britney Spears has been suffering from this and been denied and treated so unjustly for years, imagine the countless of other cases of everyday people who just get outright ignored. From the elderly to the disabled to those who suffer from mental illness who are being mistreated and not taken seriously because of their conditions, because the people around them are taking advantage of them when they are vulnerable, etc.

I agree wholeheartedly. There's this idea that people with disabilities and mental illnesses shouldn't be "allowed" to make their own choices. While certainly assistance may be needed, people with disabilities and mental health issues still deserve autonomy. I hope we can advocate not ONLY for her, but for people who don't have thousands of fans to try helping. (And even with thousands of fans it hasn't been simple.)

ETA: Another thing — I think we need to somehow overcome this idea that parents have "ownership" over their kids who have disabilities or mental illnesses. I see so many social media posts where it's like "I am an Autism Mom speaking for my son," and... are you? Have you asked what your son wants and needs? Or are you just projecting your own wishes? It's like that disgusting essay "Welcome to Holland," which is touted in the parenting community, because apparently it does not matter how people with disabilities might feel. (I originally wrote "disabilities community." NO. No one who is actually disabled wants to be told their parents got on the wrong plane. Funny how that works.)

I'm not trying to undermine what parents go through while raising kids with challenges, I know they go through a lot. I had some challenges and my parents went through a lot. But I was always a person, you know?

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

One of my friends works in a part of government where they provide funding to people with disabled kids and the entitlement of some of those parents is something else. They chose to have kids and now that their kid isn't what they expected they just want more and more and more money and seem shocked that the government isn't going to pay for everything. Having kids for everyone is an expensive choice. Government funding is there as a bit of relief because special needs kids often have more expensive needs. But some of the parents get angry that they can't have money to pay for everything. As if it's an affront that they still have to feed their kid or pay for clothes.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Wow. :/

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

Right? I don't begrudge parents who have kids with special needs getting help as that is such a hard situation and brings up a lot of extra costs. It's the entitlement that really upsets me and the expectation that someone is going to step in and just give money for everything. We'd all love for money to just appear but that's not the way things work.

Although parents with all kinds of kids can be like that. I see a lot spout the "it takes a village..." when expecting others to step in and help them but they seem to forget that mantra when it comes to stepping up and taking care of someone else's kids (or elderly parent or sick neighbour etc. Doesn't have to be children.)

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, that was very much the social climate back then. I wasn't immune to it myself, sadly, since a lot of what the social climate was in our society during that time definitely played a lot in influencing my own internalized misogyny particularly since I was still very young, but with Britney I was a fan since day one and I've always been very defensive when people would make fun of her. I felt very sad on her behalf whenever I saw that she was the butt-end of a joke. I'm glad that people are being reflective and looking back now at how horrible it really was. The conversation has definitely changed and I'm glad we're bettering ourselves with that, it's not perfect but at least more people are coming to understand that this shit? Was not okay, not back then and certainly not now.

There's this idea that people with disabilities and mental illnesses shouldn't be "allowed" to make their own choices. While certainly assistance may be needed, people with disabilities and mental health issues still deserve autonomy.

Yeah, and it's just horrible because it not only infantilizes them it just strips them of their own agency, of their own autonomy. It's so dehumanizing and it's criminal that it continues to be so common.

I think we need to somehow overcome this idea that parents have "ownership" over their kids who have disabilities or mental illnesses.

It's honestly so disturbing seeing parents just...not really care about their own child's personal autonomy. In their minds they probably think they're being helpful or "saving" their child from hardships, but being disabled or having a mental illness doesn't make them incapable of making their own decisions or understanding their conditions. In truth, these parents act like it's shameful that their child has these conditions and that they act so entitled with being like, "I'm a parent of a child with a disability!" as if they deserve an applause for that? What about the child in question. Have you thought about their wants and needs? Their thoughts and opinions or how they feel about anything that you're doing at all on their behalf? Or are you just making decisions for them because, in your mind, they don't know what they want and you do because you're the parent and even if you don't know what to do when someone is disabled/mentally ill you are deserving more attention and accommodations than your kid?

Again, it's so dehumanizing. It's like your kid is not a human being, just a manifestation that you're "burdened" with and need support from others who "suffer" the same as you and it's just so.....gross?

(Kind of on the topic, this reminds me of the recent scandal that happened with a family channel where they adopted a kid from another country who was autistic -- and they specifically wanted to adopt a kid with disabilities -- then when the kid turned out to be too much work (which is what they acknowledged and wanted originally, btw) they gave the kid up. And then it was discovered shortly thereafter that they weren't treating the kid well at all, and was only doing it for the clicks and views and money. They just wanted to join the whole "we're parents of a kid with disabilities send us money" train that I see a lot of and it's just so.....ugh. These are human beings, not toys, not something to tote around acting like you deserve an award for being so "brave" of being a parent of a kid with challenges. Ugh.)

[violateraindrop]

I was never a fan of her or honestly really cared about her whole story. Reading about now is so messed up. She clearly needed help that she never got. On ONTD someone pointed out how the conservatorship never seemed like anything temporary. Her father has an iron grip on her which makes you wonder if it was prepared in advance. It is actually baffling how this could happen and her father was able to do more than just put into a mental health facility for maybe a couple of months.

It is very clear that she wants to be a mother again and I feel like she was robbed of that with her sons.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Honestly, even if it was meant to be temporary, a conservatorship wasn't what she needed, in my opinion. What she needed was time away from the spotlight and being in therapy, she needed a strong support system that would provide her much needed help through such a stressful time in her life that made her so vulnerable and on the edge. It's no wonder she had a mental breakdown when you see how chaotic her life was, and nobody was stepping in to actually help her. But instead of helping her they decided to control her instead, not for her well-being but so she could continue making money, and it's just so horrific the way she's been treated.

She was robbed of having a life, and I hope that she gets out of her conservatorship so she can get that life back.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_profiterole_/]

I discovered her work late because I don't listen much to music. I loved what she did at once and didn't understand all the criticisms (clearly based on misogyny, just like Twilight didn't deserve being hated on for years and years).

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Back when she debuted and during her prime, Britney was heavily judged and mocked by everyone, from people hating on her music (thinking that she couldn't sing/didn't have a good singing voice/pitting her against Christina Aguilera and other blonde pop stars around that time) to slut-shaming her, and it was definitely misogynistic. Unfortunately, that's how the social climate was back then. Not that women don't suffer through that now, but it was more, I guess, "socially acceptable" to openly mock and shame women in such a manner and have it not be questioned. Everyone did this, from talk show hosts to magazines and interviewers and other celebrities, they all mocked her and she became a laughingstock for simply being in the spotlight as a pop star.

And it's just really horrible what Britney suffered through, especially since she never did anything wrong. Looking back, she did nothing to warrant the intense hate that she got. If you didn't like her music, that's fine, but the hate and mockery she got was so aggressive and she was still a teenager when this happened to her, too. The way people spoke about her, being obsessed with her virginity and how she dressed and debating whether or not she got a boob job, it really is deeply reflective of the social climate during that time in pop culture and society in general. (And again, it's not that young stars and artists don't suffer through this now, it's just that any kind of horrible comments someone makes it is easier to push back against it; it's the double-edged sword of social media now, too, because it can go either one of two ways and it can be equally as damaging as it was back during Britney's heyday, idk).

I'm happy that people are loving Britney now, not only realizing how iconic her music is but also realizing the horrible treatment she got and are supporting her. But I wished that it didn't happen so late, y'know? I mean, better late than never I suppose, but still.

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

Her story just breaks my heart. Her father should be in jail for the abuse he's put her through.

For her family it seems she was just a source of income and it's probably been that way her entire life. She's never got to be a person who just does what she wants.

One thing I think we really need to look at is children in the entertainment business because no matter how much your kid wants to do it they likely don't understand the tradeoff of what they're giving up to be there. I know things are better in terms of protecting the money so the parents can't take everything quite as easily but those kids are still funding their parents lives and that's a lot of pressure for a kid. No kid should have to feel like if they stop performing their parents are going to lose their house.

You're right that this spills over into all kinds of situations where someone gets control over someone else and has access to their money with minimal oversight. Someone who is mentally ill or elderly and maybe suffering from dementia etc. may not know how to even start to raise the alarm that things are not right for them.

I wouldn't mind there being government organizations who have to review and okay the accounting that's going on so that the money can be used for supporting the person who you have the power over attorney over but really can't be used for anything else.

The Britney thing makes me extra mad because if she's too mentally unwell to manage her adult life she's clearly too unwell to be performing. Her dad is evil but every judge who has touched this case and approved that she can still be working insane hours and doing all of the dieting and working out etc. but somehow can't be trusted to make a choice just reeks of misogyny and never saw her as a person to protect. She was just seen as a stream of income.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

For her family it seems she was just a source of income and it's probably been that way her entire life. She's never got to be a person who just does what she wants.

Yeah, she's obviously the breadwinner of the family and they took advantage of that from the start. :/

There's been this conversation about children in the entertainment industry and the lack of protection they have as a whole, because it's true that a lot of them don't really understand the gravity of what they're doing and it can be so easy for them to be taken advantage of if they don't have people looking out for them. And especially in recent years when it comes to children growing up on social media and wanting to become famous that way, which while there's a lot of gray area in general when it comes to protection laws for children in the entertainment industry, the whole "famous on social media" angle is very new and therefore has absolutely no protection whatsoever (I have an entire rant about this, usually when it comes to things such as family vloggers and parents who force their children to be in front of the camera simply for clicks and money, not caring about their well-being or protection at all), and it's all just really disconcerting and upsetting that so many parents (and just people in general) are willing to take advantage of children like that simply because they are young and don't understand the business side of things or, if they question it, will be shut down, dismissed, or intimidated by adults who have far more control and power than they do.

but somehow can't be trusted to make a choice just reeks of misogyny and never saw her as a person to protect. She was just seen as a stream of income.

It's definitely misogynistic, but it's unfortunately very common when it comes to anyone who are of any marginalized group to not be taken seriously, people will find a way of exploit that and take advantage whenever they can. Britney in particular has been incredibly infantilized, she's a grown adult and yet she's still treated like she can't make her own decisions. All because she had a mental breakdown in 2007 after a stressful point in her life where she needed support and was getting hounded by the media, the paparazzi, and treated like a spectacle in a circus when all she needed was help. Instead of actually getting help though, she was placed on a short leash where others ended up controlling her and her assets, and has been suffering through this nightmare for thirteen years while still being treated like she cannot make her own decisions while draining her of her money, her autonomy, and her freedom. All because of fucking greed.

I'm just glad that Britney has not only been doing her research on this matter (because apparently they were keeping things from her about her own conservatorship so perhaps she didn't fight back? knowing that she could challenge it?) but has spoken up about her situation and let her feelings be known to the court that she is not happy, she has been abused during this time. I just hope that they actually listen to her and that something can be done to help her. Because nobody helped her before, and she deserves her life back.

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

Her 2007 breakdown makes total sense to me. She was under immense pressure and was being stalked by the paparazzi and just wanted to make it all stop for a moment. It's frightening that the one incident has kept her a prisoner for 14 years.

We really aren't so far away from men being able to lock women up for "hysteria" as we like to think we are I guess.

Oh god the vloggers who use their kids for internet points just upset me so much. There are some where the kids have rebelled and openly say they don't want to be on camera or wear shirts saying they don't consent to being filmed and I salute that but wonder how bad their punishment will be for making their parent look bad when appearances are the thing they're thriving on for internet views.

It'll probably take a few horrible tragedies before things change but I'd really like to see platforms where people create content become 18+ and have it be that everyone appearing in your video is of age. Parents can do their thing but the kids can't be on camera.

Kids in media in general upsets me more and more because as they get famous the parents seem to just enable rather than parent. Look at Millie Bobby Brown who was all about being "friends" with Drake on social media and he was clearly grooming her - where the fuck were her parents?! She's a kid, kids are easy to fool, but an adult should have been able to see what he was doing and shut it down. But her family are all her staff so they're all literally on her payroll and so it seems like as long as she keeps making money they don't want to jeopardize that.

Maybe we need stricter rules in that 100% of the money the kid makes goes into a trust that parents are never allowed to touch. No ability to say the money is needed for housing etc. Maybe an allowance for paying for education. But nothing that can affect the parent's lifestyle. No family members can be employed using that money etc. Just something to ensure that the kid doesn't ever have the pressure of supporting their family. The adults support their children, not the other way around.

... I'm on a full rant about this.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

It's frightening that the one incident has kept her a prisoner for 14 years.

It really is. :/ And it's sad when you think that she was afraid of speaking out in fear of not being believed, because people made her mental health and her entire situation a joke back then. Like, people relentlessly mocked her breakdown when she needed help, it was horrible. And I firmly believe that this is why she ended up getting the conservatorship, not for her well-being but that it was meant as a scapegoat so others could have an excuse to control her rather than the help she clearly needed.

Because, again, money. She's the breadwinner, the money maker, if she actually got help it would mean that she would retire from show business and not make any more money and the vultures in her life can't have that!

I have a whole rant about family vloggers and parents/guardians who basically force their children to be on social media for money, which I'm saving for a different post, because it makes me so uncomfortable and so angry.

But her family are all her staff so they're all literally on her payroll and so it seems like as long as she keeps making money they don't want to jeopardize that.

It's an unfortunate thing whenever child actors have stage parents who clearly only care about how much money their child makes more than their own child's safety and what they want. Whether it's the greed or wanting to live vicariously through them (or both), it's really sad seeing this and it happens far too often. We only hear about the more extreme cases, but it happens all the time, whether they're in the entertainment industry or any other career field where the kid is pressured into something they clearly don't want to be in, or had a mild interest in or enjoyed it as a hobby, but were forced by their parents for money purposes.

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

And the bullying was just the misogyny of the entertainment business and the general toxicity of it as even people who weren't directly making money from Britney made money from putting her down and it's still a thing.

Everyone loves a new star but there's a lot of money to be made in entertainment news when a star does anything that can be shown as being bad and knocks them off the pedestal that they were put on in the first place. It takes a lot of strength to be able to be in that industry and not be ruined by it.

Family vloggers are just horrible. Anytime I see anyone using their kids to get internet fame it's just so upsetting. I can see how it's a slippery slope. You go viral for a video of your kid being cute and get all of that attention and on the surface it didn't hurt the kid any so they do it again and again and then it's all they do.

Honestly I see kids doing some acting because it can be fun. There are kids you see who do it who just shine. But it's removing the option to quit that's such a huge issue. They don't get a chance to be normal and often when they ask for it the parents find ways to guilt their money maker into staying.

It's similar to parents who are in MLMs and use their kids to sell products. I have one friend who does that and it makes me deeply uncomfortable to see. They've already done some pretty significant damage to the kid - nothing that would count as abuse or I'd call that in, but just I look at the kid and realize she's already behind her peers in a lot of ways and that it's likely that gap will widen.

[honeymink]

if someone as famous and beloved as Britney Spears has been suffering from this and been denied and treated so unjustly for years, imagine the countless of other cases of everyday people who just get outright ignored.

Frankly I think it's because of this. It's because she has money and that money can pay for these expenses – medical and whathaveyou. Everyday people would not run this risk... well, maybe to a point. I had written this out here but I am not particularly comfortable sharing openly – let it suffice to say, I was hospitalized against my will in the U.S. and they kept me longer than legally allowed, they had my mother come from Germany as condition of my release without my knowledge – I learnt that this was also not quite legal. But we complied because we were scared and foreigners. I saw people come and go during the time in the ward where I was convinced they actually were in dire need of medical attention but one of the nurses basically told me that they wouldn't hold some people because they had no insurance. That showed me that I was most likely held because I had excellent insurance, that they had talked to and they knew would pay.

All those years after that when I lived/worked in the U.S. I got my medication in Germany and called my therapist in Germany, it felt much safer.

That being said, I think there may be situations where these or similar measures are warranted but I don't think they should be longterm solutions unless we are talking about a serious lifelong condition. I find this especially shocking in Britney's case because they made her work all these Vegas shows ... I was also reminded of when they interviewed her cousin, what was her name, Amy (?), who she was very close to but hasn't seen since the conservatorship and she said "I never thought this would go on for so long, I thought it would be for half a year or 9 months until she is better..." –

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry that you went through that. :(

It really is horrible the ways that certain people will try to take advantage of someone when they're in a vulnerable state, if nothing else than to have and control their money. And the fact that this happens far too often is unsettling. But not really surprising, considering that greed really is a massive factor.

I find this especially shocking in Britney's case because they made her work all these Vegas shows

It's probably the biggest indicator that it was never about her well-being, but about the money. How can she be underneath a conservatorship that supposedly says that she is unfit to take care of herself and make decisions when she is literally being forced to perform constantly? Where she had creative control over those shows (at least, to an extent, as she said during her testimony that she didn't like a dance move and she was punished for being "difficult", like wtf?) She's just a money-maker and the conservatorship was just an excuse to put her on a short leash so she can continue being the breadwinner of the family. It's just so dehumanizing, seeing the way that she's been treated, and I'm glad that she's spoke out about it and I hope that the judge is listening, like really listening, so that things can change for her.

And in my opinion, she didn't need a conservatorship to begin with, even if it was only meant to be temporary. What she needed was time away from the spotlight, therapy, and a good support group to help her out during that stressful time. Unfortunately, mental health wasn't really looked at in a sensitive light back then. :/

[honeymink]

when she is literally being forced to perform constantly?

Exactly. It sounds like slavery to me. The whole part where she talked about refusing to do a certain dance move and her manager shutting her out of a conference room, calling her doctor and them changing her medication because she wasn't complying that really triggered me. This whole thing when they call you therapy resistant when you don't do exactly what they want you to do and the result is that they drug you more.

I feel like at the time or even now it's not quite clear what a conservatorship really is as opposed to power of attorney. I guess in theory you can take power of attorney away again unless you are incapacitated?

What she needed was time away from the spotlight, therapy, and a good support group to help her out during that stressful time.

I never followed her so my memory is not that great if there was drug use at some point and I'm not sure what led up to the whole head shaving, car destroying debacle anymore but yes, I felt that the whole thing was blown out of proportion in a sense – she had a very public breakdown but she wasn't the first or the last and it wasn't displaying the sort of behaviour where I would have been so concerned that I'd think this is a person who will never be able to make decisions for herself again. You shouldn't compare people but I'm thinking of Amanda Bynes where I'm torn – I like her very much but from everything I've seen and read she doesn't come across as being well... I was so happy for her when her mother and the courts declared that she was well and the conservatorship ended the first time but then that didn't last and she relapsed. :(

[honeymink]

Just fyi – The cousin's name was Ali – there was an interview with her from Feburary this year on how Britney's father threatened her and made her cut off contact with Britney: https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/britney-spears-former-assistant-elaborates-tumultuous-time-captured-documentary-n1257909

[tabaqui]

I hope, too, that people keep talking about this, because however traumatic what Ms Spears has been suffering is, there are others suffering even more, and worse, and it needs not to go back behind closed doors.

I want her to win, too.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

There are so many people who are suffering that don't have a large group of people rallying behind them and making movements to stop the unfair treatment they're enduring. I really don't want this swept under the rug, because while the spotlight is on Britney's situation it goes far beyond just her.

[sictransits.livejournal.com]

I agree. I want Britney free to live her own life again, and I hope that the attention this has brought to conservatorships helps bring about real change that can help others in similar situations.