"Dude, you are NOT my nemesis."

[rogueslayer452]

I often feel like there's a lot of confusion when it comes to deciphering between antagonists and villains, and it kind of bothers me a little. By definition, an antagonist is someone who strongly opposes the protagonist in some form and doesn't always have to be a villain character. It can be a rival, it can just be someone who is merely an obstacle due to clashing of beliefs and values that is preventing the protagonist from what they need to accomplish. There's also anti-heroes and morally gray characters, as well. So, while villains are antagonists, not all antagonists are villains. Seeing someone call a clearly antagonistic rival a villain just annoys me a little, is all. Just because they are opposite of the protagonist doesn't automatically make them a villain, it's not always that black and white. There is a wide variety of flavors regarding antagonists (and villains, too) and there's a nuance and complexity to them if they're written well enough.

On a similar note, I also wish people would stop confusing "rivals to lovers" with "enemies to lovers". I love both tropes, but they're two separate things. Rivals usually just bicker and banter to get a rise out of each other, oftentimes as a competition in a way with one another, whereas enemies actually want to cause harm to the other. There are, of course, variations to each but way too often I see people calling something "enemies to lovers" when they actually should mean "rivals to lovers" instead.

This has just been on my mind lately, and I just needed to vent a little.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_profiterole_/]

This is true.

[violateraindrop]

Absolutely!

The Winter Soldier is not the villain in the second Cap movie, he is an antagonist. Fandom gets that one right, but I've seen it wrong so many times. And that is an easy one.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I often feel like there's a lot of confusion when it comes to deciphering between antagonists and villains,

I think that's in part because when we're in school and just learning about character types, that is often how antagonists are posed. But in reality, it's not that simple, and I think even children's and middle grade literature probably has examples. If your main character is a brat, then the antagonist is someone who tells on them for being a brat. It gets more complex as you get older and start reading/watching/consuming things with more and more complex themes.


On a similar note, I also wish people would stop confusing "rivals to lovers" with "enemies to lovers". I love both tropes, but they're two separate things. Rivals usually just bicker and banter to get a rise out of each other, oftentimes as a competition in a way with one another, whereas enemies actually want to cause harm to the other. There are, of course, variations to each but way too often I see people calling something "enemies to lovers" when they actually should mean "rivals to lovers" instead.

I also wholeheartedly agree with this point. Two different concepts, and while yes, there are variations, they're still within those parameters.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

It gets more complex as you get older and start reading/watching/consuming things with more and more complex themes.

True, but sadly there's a lot of grown adults not being able to tell the difference. I've seen this in fandom (mostly with "villain discourse") and it's kind of annoying seeing people who should know and understand the difference just not get it, and even be defensive and combative when corrected.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Let me elaborate: I think a lot of grown adults never "graduate" that more juvenile mindset, per se. So they still look at antagonists being "the bad guys" even though that's a very, very juvenile way of looking at it.

It is annoying though. Because there certainly is a difference, and I wish more grown adults realized that.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, absolutely. It's really unfortunate and frustrating since it makes discussing anything further in-depth with them about characters/stories/themes next to impossible because a lot of them simply refuse to broaden their horizons when it comes to what they consume in fiction.

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

Good distinction. I love all of the tropes but you're right there are very clear differences.

I mean in Buffy her mom is sometimes an antagonist (grounding her when she has a slaying duty, MOO, etc.) but is never ever the villain.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Exactly, like there's a lot of antagonist subcategories that doesn't automatically mean villain. Sometimes there is no Big Bad but just someone that opposes another person, who creates an obstacle, and who aren't inherently bad or even evil.

[awakenyourfaith.livejournal.com]

Definitely!