What if 2020 is just the universe's extra time in the ball pit?

[rogueslayer452]

++ Sarah Z, one of my favorite video essayists, recently uploaded a video recounting and discussing the disaster that was Dashcon, the first and last Tumblr-based convention that happened back in 2014. Most will probably only know it from the infamous ball pit meme that circulated about, but there's a lot more that goes into it than just that. I already know most of what was mentioned, but seeing it all laid out in full detail of the event (before, during, and the aftermath), it's really more depressing than it is funny. This obviously wasn't the first or the last poorly planned convention to exist, but speaking as someone who was aware of this while it was going down it's just an interesting look at what went wrong and why this did, ultimately, change the way fandom on Tumblr operated. Because Sarah does briefly go into that, which I have to agree that the atmosphere did fundamentally change, whether it was from the convention itself or the way people reacted to the convention, it definitely made the harmless fun aspects of certain fandoms a little less fun. But that's a discussion for a whole other time.

Overall, while there have been people who covered this topic before I really liked Sarah's take on it, not only with a lot of research but also since others have unfortunately ended up, inadvertently or no, making fun of the young people who attended the convention, which is uncalled for. We can acknowledge the horrible dumpster fire that Dashcon was without turning to mock the teenagers who went. Which I find happens a lot whenever something deemed "cringey" happens and people want to feel better about themselves by mocking young people, usually teenage girls. So I'm happy that Sarah didn't do that and addressed the issue.

++ I don't particularly care for award shows, since we all know it's just a popularity contest anyway and the things that rightfully deserve to be recognized often are snubbed. With that being said, that doesn't mean that I'm not happy whenever something I like is nominated. With the Emmys recently announcing their nominations, I'm glad that The Mandalorian has been nominated multiple times (however the lack of recognition for Pedro Pascal is just blasphemous, imho), and I'm happy that Euphoria got some love as well, most notably Zendaya for best lead actress, because she absolutely deserves it.

Comments

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I keep meaning to watch that video! I remember hearing about the failure that was Dashcon at the time. I'll comment further after watching, but for now all I have to say is "ouch" to mocking teen fans. Honestly, as a former teen fan myself, that shit bugs me anyway. On one hand, having also been an adult fan who found younger fans a little annoying at times, I get it, but still. Teenagers have feelings too, you know? Also, older fans are just as likely to be annoying or naive. Especially online.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I feel like the kind of bashing of younger fans oftentimes is associated with not getting what the youth is currently into and considering it "cringey", as if older fans aren't also into "cringey" things. It's even worse when it's teenage girls, that's a very rampant issue in all areas. It's really upsetting, there's no reason to attack or mocking young fans for simply wanting to go to something that they all enjoy.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I was thinking more in the context of making fun of fans within the same fandom, though I agree that happens too. Look at Twilight. I've never really experienced that as much as being at odds within a fan community, though.

For example, when I was on some Harry Potter boards way back when, they were technically for adults, with a teen forum having been established. However, the teen forums were really either ten year olds pretending to be teen Harry Potter fans, or very immature teen fans. Which has a place, I'm not trying to knock that, but some of us wanted to have more nuanced conversations than "Draco is mean and Hermione is nice." However, the adult fans were kind of terrible to us for being kids. On one hand, I'm sure the pink font got old, among other things. On the other hand, we weren't that bad. Well - IIRC. Maybe I'm wrong. The other strange thing is that to begin with, we WERE mostly teen fans. Older fans found the boards and realized the "adult fans" were really 15-19 year olds and got upset. That was not their place. At all. So even if we were more annoying than I remember from the perspective of my fifteen year old self, they also came on our turf and tried to change the rules.

However, I also realize from experience how annoying teen fans can be. And even my own complaints about the immaturity of the forums I went to could be mirrored in how the older fans on the HP forums felt. Moreover, I remember being in fan spaces where the young fans would take over entire conversations with their, well, childishness. I belonged to a chatroom where the conversation was always changed to LOST, and honestly, if I hadn't known better I would have thought the whole point of LOST was how hot Sawyer (I think?) was. I at least knew it was much, much deeper than that, but that was what the 16-18 year olds in the Harry Potter chatroom talked about. J-Pop hotties and LOST hotties. However, while they could have been better about not alienating the rest of us, there's nothing inherently wrong with liking J-Pop or LOST, or with finding actors hot. No one was mean to them, and that was the right approach, because what good would being mean have done? Although it did kinda ruin the chat. :/ But I knew lots of fans their age who weren't like that.

I don't know, I just think people need to be easier on young fans, and to not label all of them.

Okay, I watched

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

So first, my jaw dropped because as a young fan, I was 100% the Roxanne on a few occasions, if nothing anywhere near this convoluted or disastrous. Adults decide they can't be bothered anymore, then the young person gets blamed for wanting to know WTF is going on? Yup. Been there. Done that. Still kind of bitter about it. And I think when you're younger, you trust people older than you to know what they're doing, so there was that layer to all of it.

My first theory is that Meg and Cain, and this is true of so many people, realized the con was not something they were ever prepared to do. So instead of doing SOMETHING, they did nothing. I've had it done to me by people far more older and professionally experienced, though, if again not to that level. People love ideas until they have to get off their asses and do something about said idea And that's the thing; they could have just said "sorry, not going to work after all," quietly refunded everyone their money and gone into the night before all of this. Still shitty, but at least less of a waste of people's time and, again, money.

My second theory is that it was all a scam to begin with, one Meg and Cain thought they'd get away with. Well, and actually they seem to have, considering no one's ever gotten their money back.

All in all, really sounds like a shitty mess.

Re: Okay, I watched

[honeymink]

The fact that Megg and Cain tried to pull this whole thing off a second time without Roxanne makes me suspicious. I figure maybe the first time it was legit but the second time it must have been a scam because honestly how can you even get up on stage and ask people for US$ 17,000 while lying about why you need it? And then not pay the Night Vale cast who has actually appeared at the con while people are waiting for them at the panel? It's unbelievable to me. It goes beyond screwing this up, I think. This is indeed fraudlent.

I wouldn't laugh at people who went. I mean this desire to get together and meet your internet friends? There's nothing wrong with it.

RE: Re: Okay, I watched

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think you're right. I think I was projecting a bit since I have been on the end of "oh, sorry, we just couldn't be bothered." But while those cases were extremely annoying, little to no money was involved, and in the end it was more just a big disappointment, especially when expressing said annoyance was met with "WTF are you talking about, shut up." (Now that I'm the age of some those people, and still ten or fifteen years younger than others were, wow, what a charming way to treat a twenty year old.)

However, this was probably scam. They also made people wait hours for Night Vale despite having known for weeks they weren't coming. At most, maybe it didn't start out that way, but turned very scammy very quickly.

Yeah, I think the most I ever side-eyed younger fans was for Twilight, which I kind of regret now. And even that was more concern about Bella being a bad role model than mocking them as fans. Also, just making fun of Twilight in general, which I regret now. I don't know, it's weird to me how much energy I put into making fun of a YA book series that was never written for me. One of my friends even gently pointed that out.

Re: Okay, I watched

[honeymink]

It was my impression that Night Vale was there but that they went away while the audience was waiting because they didn't get paid. One of the other panelist (some anime voice actor?) who lost their room slept on their couch. It was the band (Steam Powered Giraffe?) that they had booked initially acutally said in January that wouldn't appear but I think they never clarified would not come after all. And they didn't refund people the extra money for Meet & Greet tickets.

Thinking back about my fandom behaviour... not sure, I guess twenty years ago I was overly invested in "Roswell" for a hot minute and hated the main ship because it turned so unhealthy and co-dependent. That's something I generally despair of when toxic relationships are romantized but these days I just suffer quietly.

RE: Re: Okay, I watched

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Ohh, right. That makes a bit more sense, but still crummy and sketchy of the con. Really, the more I looked at it, the more I think they were just classic scammers. Especially given Cain's apparent reputation. (As Sarah Z said, this is hearsay, but it does add up quite perfectly.)

I never got into the popular ships in my fandoms, but that's because I tended to ship things I saw as being close to canon - really I called myself a "canon shipper," but I have issues with the term now as I used it. For example, I called Ron/Hermione a canon ship despite it not really being a canon ship at that point. I still think there were ginormous indications,* but how did I know they'd stay together? That one of them wouldn't be killed off, or that they'd just break up?


*Sorry.

Re: Okay, I watched

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

It seems like this could've easily been just an unfortunate case of a poorly managed convention by inexperienced individuals who had no idea what they were doing and it just spiraled out of control and they tried to hide their embarrassment with lying to cover their asses, making matters worse for everyone. It's horrible, but it can happen. However, everything else about it just feels like a scam, particularly with how shady Megg and Cain were being during the event and after the fact.

I read a theory around the time much reports from the event were trickling in, and some speculated that the reason that no legal action was taken, or that nobody was given their refund from the event, was that Megg and Cain specifically chose a state where laws would protect them from being sued or anything like that, or that no legal action could take place if someone decided to sue them, something along those lines. Idk how true that is though, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the plan all along. That even if it turned into a clusterfuck of an event, they could just take the money and run all the while throwing their scapegoat (Roxanne) under the bus.

It's truly a horrible situation all around. Yeah, most people will look at Dashcon on the surface and laugh at how much of a disaster it turned out to be, but the underlining issues that happened were just terribly upsetting.

RE: Re: Okay, I watched

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Don't take this the wrong way because you did nothing wrong, but I actually sort of wish I'd seen the video before I read your post, because I think your part about younger fans made me go in with certain things in mind! Again, totally nothing you did or didn't do, it's just one of those things where you go in a little biased, you know? So when I got to the Roxanne part I was already thinking about my experiences as a young fan, and I think I over-identified with that element. Because yeah, I do think this was less "oh crap, we went waaaay over our heads here" and more "lol scam." Especially as you point out, given all the weird behavior during and after.

event were trickling in, and some speculated that the reason that no legal action was taken, or that nobody was given their refund from the event, was that Megg and Cain specifically chose a state where laws would protect them from being sued or anything like that, or that no legal action could take place if someone decided to sue them, something along those lines. Idk how true that is though, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the plan all along. That even if it turned into a clusterfuck of an event, they could just take the money and run all the while throwing their scapegoat (Roxanne) under the bus.

Oh wow. I can see that. Also, it struck me as odd from the start that it was two thirty-somethings and a nineteen year old. I get on the one hand that age gaps aren't as big a deal online - I had lots of online friends at that age who were well past thirty-something. But even the stuff I set up with other people, it was more of a combination of ages, and I wasn't one of the people in charge. So it wouldn't surprise me at all of Megg and Cain chose someone younger than them to run things on purpose, because she might be less inclined to immediately question what was going on.

It's sad because I was reading the comments, and someone alleges they're friends with Roxanne and say that it messed her up for years. I can't imagine why they'd lie, so I have to assume it's true, and man. On the plus side, she does seem to be doing better now.


It's truly a horrible situation all around. Yeah, most people will look at Dashcon on the surface and laugh at how much of a disaster it turned out to be, but the underlining issues that happened were just terribly upsetting.


Often it is. :/

Re: Okay, I watched

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

But even the stuff I set up with other people, it was more of a combination of ages, and I wasn't one of the people in charge. So it wouldn't surprise me at all of Megg and Cain chose someone younger than them to run things on purpose, because she might be less inclined to immediately question what was going on.

Precisely. And, as you mentioned previously, younger people tend to look up to those who are older then they are, so having these grown adults take advantage of someone who is younger and less experienced is just downright awful and deplorable.

And I absolutely believe that she would've been messed up for a long time after, because how could you not be? It must've been such a traumatizing experience, putting your trust in these people only for them to turn around and betray you in such a way, and have all this blame placed upon you and it must've taken a long time for things to be cleared up. I truly hope that she is doing better, because nobody deserves to go through something like that.

[violateraindrop]

I feel the same about awards shows. Seeing The Mandalorian nominated was a nice surprise though. I still don't understand how Keri Russell never got an Emmy for The Americans...

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I could never understand why Emmy Rossum never won an award for her work on Shameless. Because say what you will about the later seasons, since absolutely deserved some kind of recognition. She gave such a raw and emotional performance every time we saw her on screen. I also am still very bitter that BSG never got any kind of Emmy nomination either, then again, it was a genre show and we all know award shows hate genre categories. :/

[violateraindrop]

I never watched Shameless, but I've heard that several times already. No matter how much money Jeff Bezos throws at The Expanse, I doubt it'll ever get any recognition.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I was thinking that same thing, that even with The Expanse, a brilliant and fantastic science fiction show, it probably won't be recognized by any kind of big awards. Not that it needs a shiny statue to showcase how amazing it is, but it does suck as a whole that scifi isn't nearly as recognized despite it's amazing storytelling when it's just as good as any drama show.

Basically, the Academy needs to be more inclusive with their categories.

[tabaqui]

Man, i hate award shows. They give awards, it seems, to the same 'things' over and over. The same kind of show, the same kind of actor, the same kind of performance. It's just so incredibly boring and, as you said, so exclusionary.

Bleh.

Good luck to your shows! :D

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's always the same thing year after year, and it gets tiring. I feel like award shows should be celebrating the successes of things that don't often get recognition, but there's definitely a lot of intention exclusion that occurs. For example, particular genre shows and movies never get recognized during these events, such as science fiction and horror, and if they do it's often mislabeled as being a "drama" rather than the genre they actually are.

As much as I don't care about award shows, I do think it's fundamentally unfair to a lot of artists, actors, and creators overall who get snubbed when they rightfully deserve more recognition for their work. There are smaller award shows that are dedicated to specifically celebrate independent films, which is good, but I think on a bigger scale there needs much improvement in Hollywood and the industry overall.

[tabaqui]

Yup. I feel the same.
I mean, i know i'm partial, but Jensen Ackles in Supernatural has deserved to get at least one award for his performance on that show.

And I can think of a half-dozen really good sci-fi that should have at least been nominated.
Frustrating stuff.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

It looks like he has won at least five awards for being on SPN. Not an Emmy, but definitely awards nonetheless.

I'm still bitter that BSG never won anything. Although it did win a Peabody Award, which is quite a prestigious award, so I'm not complaining about that. But it at least deserved some kind of Emmy nod, y'know? But it's true though, there's a lot of scifi that is so good that deserves nominations, yet they all get dismissed and snubbed. Ugh.

I guess we could argue that Game of Thrones did break that mold for being the first genre show (fantasy) to be nominated and win awards, but that show was less fantasy and more political drama so idk if that really counts, imho.

[tabaqui]

Meh.
I am NOT a GoT fan, so i...shrug, heh.

And yeah, he's won 'People's Choice' and 'Teen Choice' awards, stuff like that. Nice, but...not the kind of thing that really puts you up there in the 'serious actor' category. The Emmy's that Show got nominated for were all for sound, and they've never won.

Ah, well.

[icecoldrain.livejournal.com]

OMG I need to watch that. I always remember the infamous ball pit meme first lmao but there was so much crap that was coming out about it at the time. It'll be wild to see it all laid out because there's gotta be a lot that either wasn't out in the open fully or that I straight up missed (or forgot over the years).

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I think because there was a lot of conflicting information around that time about what really happened, we didn't get the full story, not to mention the full extent of everything that occurred before and after. Anything else probably got lost with everything talking about it or questioning the legitimacy of the claims. So I guess years after the event it makes sense to revisit it and see what actually was true and where things are now, to give perspective of what truly happened.

And really, it's just chaos and unfortunate and disappointing. Sure, people made fun of it, but I think many don't realize how truly disastrous it is until they see it laid out like this.

[sakuraberries]

Oh, Dashcon! I remember it as it was going down too; this looks like a super interesting video. Can't wait to watch it!

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

It was wild when it went down, I remember all the posts coming out about it. Watching the video and seeing all the information laid out of what happened is interesting, but it's also devastating when you think about it.

[4kennedy.livejournal.com]

I don't give a damn about award shows. When I come across nominations I check them out, having some hope to find something new and interesting, but get disappointed all the time.
No clue what is Dashcon and what caused the turmoil, so I can't comment on that topic. sorry.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

There can be some surprises when it comes to who gets nominated/wins, but otherwise it's mostly the same things every year which gets repetitive and boring. Also, I honestly haven't watched an awards program fully in over a decade or so because no matter what it becomes so uninteresting. I remember when award shows, most particularly things like the MTV Music Awards, used to be these big events that were somewhat entertaining. Now, it's just reduced to being incredibly stale or trying way too hard to be funny but failing.

No clue what is Dashcon and what caused the turmoil, so I can't comment on that topic. sorry.

Well, the video I linked in the post really gives a concise overview of what it is and what happened, and you can even read about it here (https://fanlore.org/wiki/DashCon) if you're curious. Not everyone knows about it, but it as quite notorious for a long time among fandom, whether you were on Tumblr or not, because of everything surrounding how disastrous it was and the aftermath.