Fandom and let fandom, y'all

[rogueslayer452]

There is this fandom meme I've seen that I may or may not do in the near future, but there were some questions on there that I felt deserved to be answered separately since they were more generic instead of specific fandom based.

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion?
When it comes to LJ, not really. I don't think I've ever defriended anyone who had different fandom views or opinions unless they were starting unnecessary drama with others who disagreed with them. On Tumblr, however, yes I have unfollowed people who have had certain opinions, viewpoints, or attitudes about fandom that I felt I didn't want to see all over my dash, especially since many over there can be so damn aggressive to the point of being annoying. But I find that with Tumblr, it's a very impersonal space where you can follow/unfollow/block people on a whim and it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, as opposed to LJ where there is more of a personal connection between you and your mutual online friends. Honestly, I love it when online friends have different opinions on things, I love reading what other people think about something that we mutually like, we don't always have to agree. Just don't be a dick about it.

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?
Unfortunately, yes. I usually try not to let fandom opinions ruin my fun or my preferences, but sometimes the shipping wars and pushy fanatical shippers of certain pairings that I actually like can be so persistent and overwhelming that it seems impossible to avoid unless you distance yourself from the fandom altogether. This can even happen with pairings that I was mostly indifferent towards but ended up hating because of the sense of entitlement of the fandom itself. It's why I try to stay away from the intensity of certain sides of fandom.

Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased?
Absolutely not. I never understood this mentality that you had to ship what the majority of people in the fandom shipped, as if that ever made a difference in anything. It implies that if you're not on board with the most popular thing in fandom then you're in the wrong, which is just ridiculous and immature. This is kind of entitlement is what fuels most, if not all, shipping wars. It doesn't matter if you ship something that is popular or not, canon or fanon, just ship whatever the hell you want to and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

What are your thoughts on crack ships?
Love them. Listen, I have plenty of crackships myself, and there's just something I enjoy with seeing the "what ifs" of characters being together, especially if they aren't even from the same fictional universe. It's just fun imagining the concept. That is the beauty of what makes fandom so great, we have so many options and possibilities to make what seems the impossible work.

Comments

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

ut I find that with Tumblr, it's a very impersonal space where you can follow/unfollow/block people on a whim and it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, as opposed to LJ where there is more of a personal connection between you and your mutual online friends.

I feel similarly about twitter, where lately I've been involved with the writing community. It's much more impersonal.

I've never unfriended people only because of different opinions, but I think I have defriended people who were jerks about it. I've also bee defriended over different opinions. (Although in a few of those cases, I think people just didn't like how I expressed some of my opinions. And honestly, they had a point.)

, but sometimes the shipping wars and pushy fanatical shippers of certain pairings that I actually like can be so persistent and overwhelming

YES. I've even witnessed this within my own ships. This is going WAY back, but while I shipped Ron/Hermione in Harry Potter, at some point even R/Hr shippers just... got to me. They were so obnoxious towards H/Hr shippers, and a lot of H/Hr shippers were obnoxious towards us, that I almost hoped Hermione ended up with Viktor Krum just to shut both sides up. I also had a friend in the R/Hr corner of fandom who left, and she told me in confidence that it was in part due to being so tired of the vitriol. I think it's why I've limited my shipping in more recent and in current fandoms. I have things I ship, but I stay out of it online, for the most part.

, just ship whatever the hell you want to and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

Frankly, the idea that you have to stop such and such makes it hard for other people to even get into a fandom! Especially when it comes to smaller ones.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Although in a few of those cases, I think people just didn't like how I expressed some of my opinions. And honestly, they had a point.

Yeah, I remember many years ago I was very opinionated about particular things that, looking back now, I can understand why someone would have wanted to defriend me for. I don't think anyone did at the time, but I kinda cringe now realizing I probably could've been a bit better with how I presented my opinions.

I think it's why I've limited my shipping in more recent and in current fandoms. I have things I ship, but I stay out of it online, for the most part.

I'm kind of on the same boat lately, as well. I mean, I obviously do still read fanfic about the pairings I ship, and even follow certain people who specifically post about them so I can get my fix at times, but I'm not really an active participate in fandom over it anymore. Plus, fandom has become incredibly hostile when it comes to shipping, and not just with shipping wars but just the overall mentality that shipping must be "pure" or some form of activism, which is exhausting to deal with so I keep most of my ships to myself.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Plus, fandom has become incredibly hostile when it comes to shipping, and not just with shipping wars but just the overall mentality that shipping must be "pure" or some form of activism, which is exhausting to deal with so I keep most of my ships to myself.

That's bonkers. :/ I'm glad it wasn't that bad in my fandom spaces when I was more involved. Don't get me wrong, there were still a lot of problems, but that wasn't quite one of them.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I'm very thankful that my first introduction to fandom during my formative years was where there was this understanding of "ship and let ship", that even if you didn't like a particular pairing or kink you could just walk away and find something else to your liking. You didn't have to bash it simply because your eyeballs saw it. Yes, there were obnoxious shipping wars, but as a whole nobody was shaming or policing others for the things they liked or wrote in fics and whatnot.

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I've never had fandom ruin a pairing I really loved, but this:

This can even happen with pairings that I was mostly indifferent towards but ended up hating because of the sense of entitlement of the fandom itself.

This has happened a few times. I've had pairings I had no real opinion of until it's shippers became so obnoxious that I could no longer separate the ship from it's fans. But again, I don't think that's ever happened with a ship I truly loved.


Honestly, the term "crack-ship" is super confusing to me because I've seen people use it to mean different things. To me, a crackship is something like Roslin/Airlock or Regina/Floor or Juliet/Spoon where fans are just having fun/being silly by shipping characters with objects.

However, I've also seen it used for rare non-canon or crossover pairings which just...feels weird to me? Like "crack ship" sounds like something you wouldn't take seriously and that seems judgmental when used for legitimate ships (i.e. ships involving two people rather than character/object.) IDK...It feels like something certain fans would do to just dismiss a ship they don't like, you know?

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

See, I've only seen crackship to refer to things someone wrote themselves. Like a crackfic. So they know X/Y makes no sense and are just having fun.

However, I'm basically an ancient crone living in the woods in fandom years, so the term may have a much more judgmental meaning these days. ;)

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I mean, I think it's perfectly fine for someone to refer to their own ship as a crack-ship but I don't really like seeing fandom in general use it because someone will inevitably decide to call a ship they don't like a crack-ship. I remember seeing that term pop up in OUAT fandom and it was always used by people who hated the ship as a way to invalidate it. I imagine it's just one of those fandom terms that started out meaning one thing and then turned into something else. But that's why I don't really like using it unless I'm talking about something ridiculous like character/object :)

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

It makes me think of "social justice warrior." When I first heard the term, it referred to people who really were either trolls or highly pedantic, then it became a term activists in general took ownership, then it became a term used by the right-wing to criticize the left. I can't even use it anymore because I sound like Rush Limbaugh if I do, even if I'm referring to people who took offense to the word "sandwich", not to actual activism. :/ Words change meaning and connotation, and I guess a lot depends on where you first heard it.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I feel like the term "crackship" has changed its definition overtime depending on who is using it.

I've always associated it to being something done simply for fun despite how ridiculous it seems. It's not a rarepairing nor is it a non-canon ship, it's kind of its own thing separately that can mean anything ranging from a character/inanimate object to two (or more) characters from different fictional universes. It's just something done for fun, knowing it makes no sense, but they're still enjoying making it work nonetheless.

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I feel like the term "crackship" has changed its definition overtime depending on who is using it.

Yeah, pretty much. As I said in an above comment, I've seen people use it in an attempt to invalidate a ship they don't like or to shame fans of said ship which is why I don't really care for the term. I never know what people mean when they use it, you know?


It's just something done for fun, knowing it makes no sense, but they're still enjoying making it work nonetheless.

If people write fic/make art/etc and want to label their own pairing as a crack-ship, I have no problem with that because the person is basically just making fun of themselves, but fandom as a whole using the term is a different story.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

That is very true, and I've unfortunately witnessed people actually doing that in the past. Not as much anymore since I don't think the term is as widely used these days, but still it's sad when people try to do that.

[violateraindrop]

it's a very impersonal space where you can follow/unfollow/block people on a whim and it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things
I agree 100%!

I once unfollowed someone because they were kind of aggressively shipping an actor and an actress (including bashing the actor's SO) which made me very uncomfortable. Their characters were together on the show and had good chemistry, but it's just too much when you try to apply that to real life when they are publically seeing other people.

A lot of what you're saying in regards to shipping really fits your last entry. A lot of times people are very fast to say you're homophobic for not shipping their m/m or f/f ship. Or even supporting the fandom's predominant headcanon about a character being LGBT.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

.I once unfollowed someone because they were kind of aggressively shipping an actor and an actress (including bashing the actor's SO) which made me very uncomfortable.

Yeah, I think that's reasonable of you to defriend over. That's pretty uncomfortable.

A lot of times people are very fast to say you're homophobic for not shipping their m/m or f/f ship.

Argh, I hate that. That's really not homophobic. I have happened to not like a lot of the popular ships in my fandoms, but it was either because I couldn't reconcile their differences in canon, or because I liked the canon friendship, or because I just... didn't or don't ship it. It was the same with heterosexual pairings. (Okay, I realize that's the sort of thing someone homophobic would say, but seriously, I don't care what gender each person in a relationship identifies as. I just care whether or not I like the ship.)

[violateraindrop]

Fandom is also full of hypocrites. Numb3rs (the show with David Krumholtz) had two male detectives that I shipped, but it was impossible to find fanfic. I'm guessing that is because one is black and one is white which is something other people have noted, too. Predominant pairings are often two white men and if you don't ship them, you're homophobic. Doesn't matter if there is a POC right there which has more chemistry with either one of these characters.

*butts in*

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

Predominant pairings are often two white men and if you don't ship them, you're homophobic. Doesn't matter if there is a POC right there which has more chemistry with either one of these characters.

This applies to...many, many fandoms I've been in but your icon immediately made me think of how many POI fans would side-eye me for not shipping Reese/Finch. It didn't matter that I loved both characters and their friendship, people would always question why I didn't ship them, particularly if I mentioned the pairing I actually shipped which was Carter/Reese. (I mean, I shipped Reese with Zoe too, but Carter was my favorite person to ship John with.)

Re: *butts in*

[violateraindrop]

I felt exactly the same! That's why I used the icon ;)
I remember trying to find Carter/Reese fanfic and was surprised how many people shipped/wrote Reese and Finch because I didn't see it at all. Their friendship was precious but other than that? Carter and Reese had good chemistry in my opinion and I'm happy that canon acknowledged it, even if it was a little late. And I also shipped him with Zoe to some degree. The thing they had on the show worked for me.

Re: *butts in*

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I understood why people shipped Reese and Finch but, like you, I didn't see it as anything more than a really strong friendship. Reese and Carter had excellent chemistry and I was glad to see their feelings sort of acknowledged right before the end. Yeah, Reese/Zoe was just a fun pairing and I enjoyed their casual friends-with-benefits type relationship in canon.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

That's understandable. I don't mind RPF, but when it becomes severe tinhatting to the point of getting aggressive like that, then that's where the line is drawn, imho.

Oh yeah, that's definitely a pet peeve of mine as well. Some get super defensive and aggressive when you don't agree with their headcanons or don't like a particular f/f or m/m ship. There are some ships out there that I just don't like because I don't see the chemistry. It's not homophobic, it's just a shipping preference. And when it come to headcanons, well, they're a personal thing that not everyone needs to agree on. So I dislike it when a specific headcanon becomes universally accepted within the fandom that if you don't agree with it then you're wrong and might get attacked for, which is....not how fandom works.

[violateraindrop]

For me, there's a big difference between writing/reading RPF and actively thinking two people are a couple in real life. They were getting pretty creepy about it.

So I dislike it when a specific headcanon becomes universally accepted within the fandom that if you don't agree with it then you're wrong and might get attacked for, which is....not how fandom works.
Exactly! I get wanting to have trans* or disabled characters for representation, but if it's not canon, not everyone has to accept that.

[blakmagjick]

I've never heard of crack ships before.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, crackships (https://fanlore.org/wiki/Crack_Ship) are definitely a thing in fandom for a long, long time. It kind of varies depending on who you're asking, but it's a term that's been around for many years, or at least as long as I've been involved with fandom.

[blakmagjick]

What are some of your crack ships?

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

In the past it had been Six/Castiel, because not only were they my favorite characters but I liked the notion about them knowing each other/having been together and such, I even made a few (https://rogueslayer452.livejournal.com/276672.html) fanmixes for them (https://rogueslayer452.livejournal.com/313915.html) (ignore the incredibly ugly photobucket watermarks that you apparently can't get rid of ugh), and I even shipped Blair Waldorf and Draco Malfoy, because I thought it would be kinda fun to explore that. Those two were definitely the biggest ones that I can remember.

As of currently, I don't think I have any crackships at the moment. I certainly debate whether something is a crackship or is just a crossover pairing at times, because like I said it does vary depending on the context.