Further addendum on Castiel this season.

[rogueslayer452]

Now I can't tell whether people are simply being reactionary based off of the episode itself or truly believe in the words they are writing out, but so far people have been completely overreacting the the revelation the newest episode gave us particularly with Castiel being in cahoots with Crowley. Most of these reactions isn't even new, since there has been plenty of fan speculation for a while now about Castiel being "evil" and "betraying" the Winchesters because of him not being entirely truthful and having ulterior motives all season long.

Let me make this absolutely clear for everyone:

CASTIEL. IS NOT. TURNING. EVIL.

It's almost like people are wanting him to become evil or something without looking at things rationally from his perspective and the circumstances he's been dealing with. Remember, the greatest harm can result from the best intentions. Good people can end up doing bad things, making questionable choices and decisions and doing morally ambiguous tasks for the greater good, especially when they're underneath a great deal of stress and pressure like Castiel has been all season. He's in deep desperation, he's had to make certain sacrifices, certain compromises due to the heavy weight he's carrying. Does this mean that Castiel is turning towards the "dark side" of things? Absolutely not.

I mean come on y'all, look at this face:



Does this look like the face of someone who is intentionally and legitimately enjoying doing horrible things? No. That's not what the definition of "evil" means, which people seem to be throwing around a lot lately as if justifying his secretive behavior. Castiel is questioning himself, he is afraid of what he is becoming, he is literally begging in the 6.20 preview to be stopped in heading in this direction. That is not a sign of someone who is turning darkside. That is a sign of someone struggling so desperately with the situation they are in, and don't want to be a part of anymore.

This is called being morally conflicted. Castiel is caught between a rock and a hard place and he's out of options, and has to take a risk which may be a necessary evil in order for things to be set right. And this is a realistic approach to many things that happen in life. Not everything is easy to attain, and sometimes you have to make certain compromises, even by bending the truth, to ensure that.

Never mind that the Winchesters have done questionable things, too. They've worked and compromised with demons to achieve their ends, yet people haven't referred to them being evil or have turned "dark side." What makes them the exception?

Here's the thing though: this is an interesting direction to be taking Castiel's arc because it shows a certain kind of development from where he was. He started out being an obedient soldier who begun having doubts and questioning his faith and his orders (S4) then after rebelling against Heaven and joining in Team Free Will in stopping Lucifer and the Apocalypse while learning about humanity (S5), and now he's on his own trying to maintain Heaven and end this civil war (S6). However with that, he's also learning the weight of this responsibility and that not everything is as simple as it seems, and because of it he's had to sacrifice certain things he believed in which is making him question, yet again, where his loyalties truly lie. Are they with Heaven, will he be able to make certain compromises to win at any and all costs, or is it with the Winchesters, that he simply cannot do this because he would jeopardize the only friends he has and deeply cares about? It's an entirely new ballpark for him and he's at loss at what to do, he's emotionally drained, completely wrecked and he doesn't want to lose anything. He can either lose the war, or lose the Winchesters. He sees no middle ground at this point, and unfortunately this is the price of war. War changes people, they start viewing things in a different light, from different perspectives than how they used to before, it makes them question situations that ultimately challenges their own morality.

And you know what? The fact that Castiel is actually questioning all of this shows his humanity. This is a good thing, and it pleases me that this is the direction they took with his character, particularly because he would have to deal with these kinds of hardships if he were to be the "sheriff of Heaven" and trying to maintain peace and equilibrium upstairs, esp for over two years.

My only concern is how the show is going to handle this. This is a potentially great character arc that can be royally screwed up in its execution, like many things have this season. Just please, please, for the love of God don't character assassinate our dear precious angel, Show. Otherwise I will never, ever forgive you.


Sorry for the long-winded rant. I just have lots of feelings regarding this, okay? Plus I'm worried, I'm biting my nails for these last few episodes of the season because it literally is the "make it or break it" for me with this show as a whole, and it all depends on this one character who I deeply am attached to.

Comments

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Well, it really bug me that they are having Cas go in this direction at all, or at least taking it this far. But I'm willing to go with it as long as he isn't evil or doesn't end up dead.

I agree that the next few episodes are "make it or break it". I haven't hated this season, but last night's episode bugged me. First, you kill off two more female characters. Second, you give us this interesting female villain for only a few episodes and then kill her off before even the end of the season.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

I guess some of my problems stem from coming from a religious background. On the one hand, I don't equate the SPN angels with real life angels (or I couldn't ship Dean/Cas). But at the same time, Cas is the only completely good angel we have (or character really), and it was nice to have at least someone who was good. Because not every single person in the world is as grey/conflicted as everyone else is on SPN, so it was nice to have Cas as something different.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I guess some of my problems stem from coming from a religious background. On the one hand, I don't equate the SPN angels with real life angels

Well, even if you are from a religious background, considering that there's so much angelic lore from all different cultures and from different religions, saying "real life" angels isn't quite correct, differing interpretations and all. The show has created its own mythology, borrowing certain aspects from different lores here and there, and it's rather fascinating. Unfortunately, the show never fully explored this mythos as deeply as they should have, which is a disappointing factor altogether, personally speaking, but I digress.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Oh I know that, though I'm not sure of any myths where evil angels aren't fallen angels, but I realize I don't know everything. SPN totally does its own thing with every mythology it gets its hands on (which is why it sometimes annoys me when people get so annoyed at "Hammer of the Gods" as if it is uniquely bad). And I was cool with it through season four and five.

I guess it is just that Cas was the only "good" character we had. He wasn't perfect, by any means, but he wasn't as grey as everyone else on SPN is. He actually cared about doing all the right things, not just the overarching kill the evil right thing. And I appreciated that. So, this new direction they are taking him on doesn't sit right with me, though I'm totally willing to be proven wrong because I think they can do it justice.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

which is why it sometimes annoys me when people get so annoyed at "Hammer of the Gods" as if it is uniquely bad

Heh, my only problem was how they seemed to try too hard for it to be an homage to American Gods when it just didn't fit with the flow of the mythology within the show, if you know what I mean.

I guess it is just that Cas was the only "good" character we had. He wasn't perfect, by any means, but he wasn't as grey as everyone else on SPN is. He actually cared about doing all the right things, not just the overarching kill the evil right thing. And I appreciated that.

But I think that's why this direction is so fascinating. He's never gone down this gray road before, and he's only doing so because he's been backed into the wall and forced to make the choice of choosing one of the lesser evils. This is challenging him to go to places he's never been before, and his uneasiness and doubting and desperation is something worthwhile to his arc because it shows how much he's willing to sacrifice, how much he's willing to take and how much he's willing not to take.

Like I said in my post, this is new territory for him and he's understanding that while in theory him trying to straighten out the chaos in Heaven would have been a good idea, he never fully realized the magnitude of where it would lead to and it's been leading him down this road where he doesn't want to be. And he's been forced to make hard decisions and, for any character that has always wanted to do the right thing, he has to make those sacrifices and, I don't know, while it's uncomfortable seeing it displayed on the show.....I think it fits right for his character to head in this direction since he's always struggled with this morality issue.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

And if this is the way the writers are going to go, I'm totally down with it though I prefer the Cas of old. I'm just not sure I have enough faith in the writers that they are thinking that deep or that they can pull it off. And if they are going down this road, I need it to be well done. I need it to still be Cas and to make sense.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

though I prefer the Cas of old.

I'm curious as to what you're referring to as "Cas of old"? Because the way I see it, as I have mentioned before, this is what is called character development. Ever since the fourth season he has developed as a character with his own storyline and everything that happened then is what has brought him here to the now. He's still the same Cas, just with some extra baggage due to extraordinary circumstances that he's dealing with.

And if they are going down this road, I need it to be well done. I need it to still be Cas and to make sense.

I absolutely agree. This could go either way and I want them to do it right than completely character assassinate him entirely. That would be ruining the "Cas of old" as far as I'm concerned.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

I guess I see the current storyline as character development, but not a necessary development. There are other ways they could have taken him that would have been development but still kept him closer to who he's been previously. Like, I like uncertain Cas who is struggling to figure out the right path but remains unsure. And a Cas who asks the same questions and considers the same choices he is making now but chooses something else instead. Or a Cas who is struggling to figure out where all the things Dean and Sam taught him fit in with being an angel and his angel teachings and who still struggles with killing his own brothers and sisters.

Anyway, there were lots of ways to to take Cas, and just for me personally this is not the best way.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Honestly? I see all of that happening within the storyline he is in right now, everything you just mentioned. Just more noticeably struggling with the war, which we have barely seen much of, or much of him this season at all.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

But the biggest thing he learned from Dean was tht the ends don't justify the means and that individual lives do matter. And I think losing that is just pushing him back into the dick territory of all the other angels.


But obviously not going to agree. And that is cool. That is one great thing about SPN: there are so many ways to look at everything, and half the fun is speculating on what we haven't been given.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

But the biggest thing he learned from Dean was tht the ends don't justify the means and that individual lives do matter. And I think losing that is just pushing him back into the dick territory of all the other angels.

But I do think he sees that and understands this, unfortunately because of this war, once again, he has to make hard choices and decisions that go against that belief and you can see how ultimately tore up he is over it. He told Dean in 6.03 that he doesn't have the luxury to care about the smaller things like individual lives, which means he does care but he cannot afford that kind of time to do anything about it. Which is the affects of the war and what he has to sacrifice due to his desperation of what he's dealing with. He's never lost what he learned about humanity, what he learned from Dean, he's just having so much to handle that he has to push aside everything and it's clear he's struggling with it and holding himself together.

But obviously not going to agree. And that is cool. That is one great thing about SPN: there are so many ways to look at everything, and half the fun is speculating on what we haven't been given.

Heh, yeah, well. ;p Speculation is all we have until Friday, and until the season ends that is. Since they've hardly given us much to go on about what is really happening and why, we just have our own personal canons. Just crossing my fingers and hoping they don't fuck shit up.....

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Well, it really bug me that they are having Cas go in this direction at all, or at least taking it this far. But I'm willing to go with it as long as he isn't evil or doesn't end up dead.

Actually I think it makes sense, given everything his character has gone through since he was first introduced it's nothing really new that he's been tested in this way of his own morality. Him being pushed and tested and him questioning himself, wanting to understand what he should do, where he should turn to when he isn't getting orders but instead making those orders, whether they are right or wrong....it's utterly fascinating because he's an angel. This is a great character arc that I wished we could have seen earlier in the season.

Of course, I would have more confidence if I actually believed this show would do his character storyline justice. I know Ben Edlund will, without a doubt, but for the finale? idk....

Second, you give us this interesting female villain for only a few episodes and then kill her off before even the end of the season.

Well, I found Eve not even that interesting or potentially threatening (I felt like they were trying too hard with her, I felt they were trying to copy BTVS via The First Evil, except at least The First Evil had a purpose, Eve never did and I felt she was mainly pointless) Then again, this show hates women. They just don't try with them anymore, and it shows. Look at how much fail they did with female characters this season alone. -__-

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

I thought the idea of Eve was interesting (I always saw her as representing the mother diety figure from a lot of myths), and her first brief appearance was good. From then on, she never really amounted to much, though. They could have done so much. Still, it did bug me that she got killed so soon even if she was a lot of wasted potential.

Yes, this show just fails at females. Sometimes, it creates awesome females that it underuses and then kills off. Othertimes, it comes up with a good idea for a female character and then never executes it properly. Either way, females on this show are screwed.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

They really seemed to make such a huge deal but then yeah, she amounted to nothing interesting and just dropped dead like a fly. Even uninteresting, it was such a waste.

I wish they (Kripke, the writers) would just admit that they generally just suck at writing for female roles other than ignoring the topic as they usually do. This is a continued hot topic in fandom about the women on the show and quite frankly, I would prefer if they just not write women characters at all. Saves everyone the trouble, don'tcha think?

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

But they can write women, or at least some of them can. You have characters like Jo, Ellen, Lenore, and Meg (at least season 1 Meg) who are written well and yet underused and/or killed off. It always pisses me off that we didn't get to see more of JO and Ellen and also the way they were killed off. Sometimes, they listen to the fandom too much I think. Only, they only listen to the loud, obnoxious, female hating side.

So, I don't want them to stop writing women, I want them to write better and then use the characters to their full potential. I want a female hunter who can give Dean a run for his money. I want a female angel who doesn't want to kill the Winchesters or who shows up for more than two seconds. I want godesses who are just as strong as the gods. I want female monsters who do more than look pretty and who are actually as scary as their male counterparts. I just want more women period.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

They used to write decent female roles, I agree. However, like you said they underused the good ones and overused the badly written ones and that's just....not how it should be done, and it's been done far too often lately and the pattern of predictability is just painful to watch over and over again.

I want them to write better and then use the characters to their full potential [...] I just want more women period.

Unfortunately, six seasons in, I don't think that's in their capability. Supernatural is not the kind of show that is female-friendly, and I've long accepted this as fact, and while it would be fantastic that's just a pipe-dream that'll never ever come true.