Hate-watching and consuming media.

[rogueslayer452]

As a topic for discussion, I've always been curious about the concept of hate-watching, and just why some people partake in it.

I feel like there are two types of hate-watching, the first is when a show someone initially likes suddenly declines in quality and despite their frustrations they try to hold out as long as possible hoping that somehow there'll be an upturn at some point, and even if it doesn't they'll be a "true fan" and begrudgingly stick with it until the bitter end. The second is when one knows they won't like something but will hate-watch it anyway just to rant about how bad it is after the fact. It's mainly the latter I'm interested in examining.

While the notion of mocking or being entertained by something for being terrible isn't new, since we've all had moments where we derive enjoyment watching certain trainwrecks occur or read up on the current drama happening in wherever online, hate-watching in itself has become more common nowadays with people wanting to see the fuss over something being declared "bad". It creates a certain curiosity and mild entertainment, which is understandable. However, I do think this also creates a problem especially when there are certain algorithms that determine the popularity of something via views, since algorithms and companies only care about the numbers, not morality. Even if it gets negative publicity for having, say, insensitive and offensive content, if you hate-watch something you're still giving it views and attention especially if you're talking about it online, thereby it gains even more popularity. This goes for watching anything from streaming services to YouTube videos from a specific individual, because it tells the higher ups that this is what people are interested in, no matter whether you actually like it or not, because again numbers matter more than morality. And I feel like a lot of people know this, and yet somehow we're still so tempted to click that link or to tune into something despite knowing what we're contributing. Then there's the trap of, "well, if I don't see it how will I know if it's actually as bad as they say", which also adds to that contribution as well. Either way, it creates this inescapable dilemma.

In general though, I've always been confused by the act of hate-watching as a whole. I'm not referring to being critical of the things you love and care for, since that's more of being objective and analytical about something that you hold dear to your heart, which that I can understand and I do quite frequently. I'm talking about watching something for the sake of hating on it, whether it's a "just because" thing or if you once liked the thing but no longer do, for whatever reason, and yet still partake in watching only to get more and more frustrated and angry with it. Just the act itself, getting worked up, wasting your time and energy over something that you have absolutely no enjoyment in whatsoever, I don't understand.

(Then again, there are those who do this for a living, who actually sit down and consume something they know they won't like but it's for the review/analysis/discussion that comes along with it. But I think that is a different thing altogether and separate from the general live hate-watching some do that is more rage-inducing than adding anything constructive.)

I don't know, this post is kind of random and sort of all over the place especially towards the end. All of this was mostly prompted by something I read regarding how Netflix tracks the views of a show which got me thinking about hate-watching and why people do it, and how it actually is a part of why certain things end up becoming more popular than others, and so on. It's just a fascinating subject when it comes to how we consume media and how our viewing habits affect the entertaining industry. It also got me wondering about the responsibility we have as consumers versus the responsibility of the industry, since no matter whether it's Nielsen or an algorithm the system is not going to be 100% accurate or effective.

Comments

[rheasilvia.livejournal.com]

I'd be interested in hearing from someone who does this! I don't hatewatch at all, and wouldn't be able to enjoy something I dislike.

I can enjoy things that are very low in quality, however, because if they're bad enough, they become unintentionally funny. I wouldn't call this hatewatching, though, because I don't dislike or hate these shows/movies at all, and they never have actually offensive content. It's just a "Plan 9 From Outer Space"-type situation where you boggle at how bad the acting and how nonsensical the plot is.

I only ever once watched a substantial amount of a show (one full season) while hating it, but that was because I was hoping to see what other people loved about it and come around to liking it. I wanted to be able to enjoy the fanfic. :-) Unfortunately I failed, and so stopped watching.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I'd say the only times I've hate-watched something were the first example you gave, where I was waiting for a show I'd liked to get good again. I did hate watch a movie once, because it was hilariously bad. But that's also a shorter period of time than an entire series.

Even if it gets negative publicity for having, say, insensitive and offensive content, if you hate-watch something you're still giving it views and attention especially if you're talking about it online, thereby it gains even more popularity.

I think the show Glee is an example of that. I actually didn't know anyone who could honestly say it was a good show after the second season, and yet it went on for six. I gave up on the show, although I watched a few episodes here and there, but the people I knew who watched it loyally were mainly music buffs who could still enjoy it as long as the music was good. They still acknowledged the plot was ridiculous, and it got so contrived when it came to trying to portray important issues.* Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of people also legitimately liked Glee until the end, I just think many more were watching for the music, and/or waiting for the plot to make sense. Because it had such a following, however, it kept on going.

Heroes may be another example, although that was eventually cancelled. That one I stopped watching after the second season. Though selfishly, I also think I was disappointed it didn't really go the direction I'd been hoping. (I think in hindsight, I wanted something closer to Buffy, with one team of "Scoobies" saving the day, rather than a more dispersed network of people who vaguely knew each other, but didn't really interact more than a few characters at a time until the walls started closing in, much like the first season.) Even with that being said, the show just wasn't what it was the first season, yet people either hate watched it or watched it waiting for it to get better.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I think that I do the first type of hate-watching quite a bit, once I become attached to characters then it’s hard for me to quit a show, even when the plot gets really bad. It has become easier to quit shows recently mind you, there is just so much new media to keep up with that it feels even more pointless to struggle through a show that you’re no longer engaged by. I’ve never hate watched a show that I didn’t like from the beginning though

A friend of mine had some interesting thoughts on the concept of hate watching actually, she feels like a show must have *some* merit if it’s considered remarkable enough in some way to get viewers outraged and discussing it, because if a show really is completely dire then wouldn’t more people just be too bored or disgusted to even watch? Shows like Gossip Girl, Vampire Diaries, and Pretty Little Liars are notorious for being ripped apart by their fanbase, but there still must be something there in the first place if people are still so invested in them, you don’t see the same kind of passionate discussion with other teen shows like One Tree Hill or 90210 for example. She’s definitely of the school of thought that it says something positive if enough people are discussing and watching, and I’m sure the networks have that same viewpoint

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

As I've gotten older I've got less time in my life to watch things that don't bring me joy. Even something like RENT Live (which I just watched knowing it was going to be a train wreck) I watched because of nostalgia and did find things I enjoyed in it. I'm so behind on shows that I like so I don't really want to spend time watching things that I hate.

I do get the idea of being invested in a show and finding it hard to quit. For things like that if it's a final season I may just push through to see how it ends but for a show like Supernatural for me it just wasn't worth it. I found that I was watching whole seasons and only liking a handful of episodes and it was just time for me to move on to something else. It's cool that people still love the show, it's just not my jam right now.

[violateraindrop]

I wouldn't say that hate-watching is something that I do. Even if I don't enjoy something I stick with it because there is something I find interesting about it (see Reverie), I want to see if it gets better or, as you have mentioned, it used to be good (see The Punisher S2).

Insatiable probably got renewed because of hate-watching. There is no other way to explain it and if it wasn't a Netflix show, it would have been canceled after the bad press and probably bad ratings (considering that a lot of Nielsen households are on the older side).

I don't know, maybe people simply get enjoyment from hating something instead of getting emotionally invested in a show they like. If you stick with something you hate anyway, you will never be disappointed...

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

What about when your spouse/partner wants to watch a show and you hate it? Does that count? That was me with Season 2 of Westworld. Tim wanted to keep watching it to know how the season ended and I was just so done with it.

Otherwise, I tend to let shows go if I find that I'm angry after too many episodes. Everyone has a bad episode every now and then, but if there are too many in a row, yeah, i have too many other shows to watch!

[impala-chick.livejournal.com]

This is interesting because at first I was like, I wouldn't do that! But I did watch Smallville way past the point where I liked it. I watched because I was hoping it would get better, and I really liked Clark. Plus, I had invested so much time in that show!

I don't really keep watching shows I don't like, because it's such a huge time investment. I have finished movies that I thought were awful, and sometimes that was intentionally so I could find things to make fun of and participate in memes or pop culture stuff that was happening around it. Like "The Room." Or if I'm in a theater with other people, I feel like I have to finish it, like "Unbroken."

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I've also done similarly, too, when a show becomes too convoluted and it makes nonsensical choices with the narrative that it's no longer as enjoyable as it once was, but I try to convince myself that as long as I like the characters then I can stick with it. Which I think is what many people do, find little things to convince themselves that they can still keep going. But there comes a time where there's a breaking point where it's like, "nope, I'm done." I've done that with several shows, had big breakups with them for one reason or another, no matter how long the show has been on. It varies depending on the circumstances.

I have less patience nowadays because, as you said, it's a huge time investment and I already have far too many shows to watch/catch up on that if I'm not enjoying something I'll drop it. I don't want to continue watching a show if it feels like a chore.

I have finished movies that I thought were awful, and sometimes that was intentionally so I could find things to make fun of and participate in memes or pop culture stuff that was happening around it. Like "The Room."

lol, yeah, MSTing is something that I enjoy a lot, because it's about the whole "so bad it's good" aspect especially with b-movies that are unintentionally hilarious. I can sit through those because it's fun to make fun of and laugh at, while it's not fun watching a show I used to like decline in quality.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting question, and I honestly don't know the answer. I think that's one of those tricky, inescapable instances where it still counts as a contribution of views regardless who in the household is actually watching.

But yeah, I'm the same. There are also shows that have good seasons and bad seasons, or seasons you felt could've been better than they were. Some of my favorite shows have that because it's kind of inevitable for the most part. But if there's a constant pattern with the writing and direction that you're not happy with, you're not obligated to continue watching. For me, I don't have the time or patience anymore to keep up with something that feels more like a chore to watch.

[awakenyourfaith.livejournal.com]

In some cases, I can enjoy things that are laughably bad (so bad it's good/so bad it's fucking ridiculous), or things of questionable quality out of curiosity's sake. In the cases where these things (be they a TV show or an anime) are currently airing, I go to Twitter and livetweet my observations, dispelling my thoughts in search for communities of "SAME". It's the spectacle of it all that keeps me watching.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can understand that. It sorta almost goes into that category of "so bad it's good" but not quite, like you're not really enjoying it as it was intended to be enjoyed but you're still kinda intrigued by it nonetheless. It's not necessarily hating on it more like, you're indecisive on how you feel about it? Like watching a trainwreck and seeing if there is something salvageable in there. I've had a few of those, myself.

Insatiable probably got renewed because of hate-watching. There is no other way to explain it and if it wasn't a Netflix show, it would have been canceled after the bad press

Yep, same with 13 Reasons Why. It had loads of bad press after the first season and it created a lot of controversy, but because people ended up hate-watching it it not only got renewed, it also doubled-down on the offensive and questionable material for its second season thus creating even more controversy and bad press which, guess what? It got renewed again. Regardless of how you feel about the show, the only reason it keeps getting more seasons is due to the hate-watching that adds more to those view numbers. That's what Netflix counts on.

I don't know, maybe people simply get enjoyment from hating something instead of getting emotionally invested in a show they like.

Which doesn't make sense to me. I mean, it's their prerogative so whatever, but at the same time doesn't focusing entirely on negativity be exhausting? Wouldn't it be better to focus your energy on something you love instead of something you hate? Then again, there are a lot of people online who love being argumentative and being negative about things in general, like it's what they do and they don't care. So yeah, idk.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

As I've gotten older I've got less time in my life to watch things that don't bring me joy.

Same here. I think many years ago I was probably more lenient and tolerant, up to a point of course. But nowadays if I'm not feeling a show, for whatever reason, I'll just drop it. I have far too many shows to catch-up on that I just don't have the time or patience for things that I'm not enjoying, no matter how long I'd been watching it.

For things like that if it's a final season I may just push through to see how it ends but for a show like Supernatural for me it just wasn't worth it.

Also same. Supernatural was one of the shows I dropped like a hot potato very, very early on once it started becoming a huge disappointment for me. It was a lesson I learned very early on to not continue watching something that was continually bringing frustration. Like, I understand the mentality of thinking you have to stick with a show if you've invested so much time with to showcase a certain kind of "loyalty" or something, but if you're no longer happy with where things are going, why would you still be with it if it feels more like a chore?

I mean, there have been shows I quit while it was still airing but, after it ended and reading up on spoilers about what happened, I have revisited. Sometimes distance can be a good thing when you're not too wrapped up with it in the moment. idk.

[sictransits.livejournal.com]

I've only hate watched in the first way you mentioned. I had a hard time quitting shows, even when they got really bad. I finally realized it just isn't worth my time to continue watching something I don't enjoy anymore. I can understand that form of hate-watching, but watching something going into it knowing it's bad is just not something I could do.

[impala-chick.livejournal.com]

Yeah, isn't it so hard when you've invested so much in a show only for it to break your heart? I remember taping the show on VHS tapes, and setting my recorder way in advance, just so I wouldn't miss an episode each week. When I decided to stop with smallville it was such an emotional decision. I think it was season 7.

Haha I had to legit look up "MSTing" but that totally fits. I think that's a good way to put it - if you know at the beginning the movie/show is a laugh, then you can just have fun making fun of it without any emotional connection.

[giallarhorn.livejournal.com]

I think there's departments of hate-engaging in something- like, I've watched/read things knowing that I'd probably hate it, largely for the purpose of 1) nixing the 'you didn't see/read it so you don't understand' and 2) formulating exactly what about it I don't like in a more clear manner. Don't do it now cause don't have time, but I could get why.

There's also the other department of bashing, which I think has become more popular now. There's probably been incidents of things that are so bad they're popular (Sharknado is a good example, I guess), but that blurs the line of becoming a meme and actual hatewatching.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

It has become easier to quit shows recently mind you, there is just so much new media to keep up with that it feels even more pointless to struggle through a show that you’re no longer engaged by.

Yeah, I find that I have very little patience for things that don't keep my interest or that aggravates me with the direction it's going in. With so many viewing options now, binge-watching, and so many shows to catch-up on, I don't have the time and energy to continue on with something that feels more like a chore to watch.

but there still must be something there in the first place if people are still so invested in them, you don’t see the same kind of passionate discussion with other teen shows like One Tree Hill or 90210 for example.

I would argue that with the shows mentioned (The Vampire Diaries, Gossip Girl, Pretty Little Liars) that there is a slight intentional way the writers handle things within the shows themselves to illicit such a reaction. Which has become more common now that writers/showrunners/execs know that this is how they can gain a reaction to get attention, esp viral attention, no matter how negative because they know people will most likely be watching in regardless, whether as a fan or for hate-watching purposes. Take a look at what happened with things like 13 Reasons Why and Insatiable, both shows gathered negative reviews and sparked outrage, but both shows ended up getting renewed due the hate-watching and publicity. Why? Because controversy sells. Gossip Girl was basically a trashy teen show that thrived off the drama that came from its own existence (ex: they did a promo for the show that had excerpts from concerned parents thinking how the show was horrible and bad) so even if it got bad some people were hooked at how bad it was still gonna get; alternatively TVD and PLL both started off relatively good in the beginning, but declined the longer they went on. I know I held onto PLL longer than I probably should have, but like my first point I was still holding onto the sliver of something because I adored the characters no matter how nonsensical it became, but of course even I had a breaking point for that show.

I don't know where I'm going with this really, because it's an interesting topic worth thinking more about and discussing. But really, as far as the merits of these shows, it really just depends on the individual fan, I think. Some probably genuinely like something even if it's trashy/ridiculous/nonsensical. What is one person's trash is another's treasure, and all that. But I do think that networks really bank on doing something that gets people talking, no matter what it is.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I did hate watch a movie once, because it was hilariously bad. But that's also a shorter period of time than an entire series.

I think with movies it's somewhat different, not only because it's less time consuming but also because there is a whole activity of watching "so bad it's good" b-movies that are unintentionally hilarious. It's why MST3K exists, and it's why I enjoy watching not only that but also commentary YouTube channels that review bad movies.

I think a lot of people also legitimately liked Glee until the end, I just think many more were watching for the music, and/or waiting for the plot to make sense. Because it had such a following, however, it kept on going.

Yeah, I think so too. I think this happens a lot with many shows. Some might start off decently enough but decline in quality, but even if some fans might get fed up and stop watching there will always be a loyal following that will continue watching right up to the end, for whatever reason. I even think those that stick around, who aren't still actually liking a show and only feel like they have to watch until it ends, have a certain masochistic attachment in a weird way, which I guess is another form of "hate-watching"? idk.

lol, I was like that with Heroes, too. There have been quite a handful of shows over the years that I quit after a few seasons because it just wasn't up to par what I thought it was going to be, or it did something that just had me "nope" right the fuck out. I just don't want to waste my time on something that is just going to disappoint me. I mean, in a way, I can understand being so emotionally invested with something for one reason or another that all you want to do is see if it'll improve to make it worth your while, but what I've learned over the years of many disappointments is that payoff doesn't always happen. And you'll just end up being bitter and disappointed.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to remember if I was as tolerant many years ago with some shows or that I was trying to convince myself to stay with it because I was emotionally invested with the characters. Since there were definitely shows that I quit very early one when I realized they weren't going in the direction I didn't like or was mistreating some of my favorite characters. I just think that now, with binge-watching being a huge thing for most people, myself included, I have less time and patience to deal with anything that doesn't hold my interest or that I know I will not enjoy.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I can enjoy things that are very low in quality, however, because if they're bad enough, they become unintentionally funny.

I do the same thing as well, sometimes, because with something being unintentionally hilarious or just otherwise charming in its own way you're enjoying yourself despite its misgivings, which is the opposite of "hate-watching".

I have never made the conscious decision to hate-watch something, though, because I just don't have the time or patience to be dealing with something that I know I won't enjoy. Even though I have fallen into the first category of sometimes holding out on a show that has declined in quality, I have never really finished all the way to the end of most of them since I usually have a breaking point of, "nope, I'm done with this nonsense". lol, I don't really hold much loyalty to any show that continually frustrates and disappoints me more than an actual payoff after so many hours watching it, tbh.

[sictransits.livejournal.com]

I agree, I think it's getting emotionally invested in the characters that makes quitting a bad show difficult. I also agree about binge watching being a reason more people are willing to quit watching shows they don't enjoy anymore. For me, it was a combination of wanting to get through my long list of shows I want to binge watch or rewatch and realizing just how many hours I was spending watching shows every week and wanting some time to do other things. It was much easier when I was in college, I had so much free time but working full time I really only have my nights and weekends for free time. If I'm not enjoying a show, it's not worth my time.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think there are certain levels when it comes to something like that. For example, required reading in school, most of the books I ended up not liking (and I hatred required reading as a result) but, of course, I had to read them nonetheless to engage in the class discussion. And oftentimes it's my own curiosity, because like you mentioned how can you know until you've seen/read something in order to have an opinion on it. But I don't actively go into these things to hate on them, it's just to form my own thoughts and opinions, just like with anything else I consume.

but that blurs the line of becoming a meme and actual hatewatching.

I agree, which can create a huge mess of problems when it happens at times.

[omgpeyton.livejournal.com]

Like you said, it's different when a show you love goes downhill and you keep watching hoping for more. I think a lot of us are guilty of that. I tend to be very loyal to my shows. I think my issue with any of it is when other people come for you over it. I hate seeing that kind of hate on social media. Have your opinion, fine. But "calling out" others for enjoying something you don't enjoy just makes no sense for me. Say your piece on the media in question and move on?

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Oh, absolutely. I know that I have opinions on certain things, but I would never bash on someone for liking something that I don't. People who try to "call out" others for liking something that they personally don't is a shitty thing to do. Like, you're not going to change their minds, so why even bother? I think it's a power trip thing for some people, always having to get the last word out, always having to be "right", etc. I mean, yeah, we all have different opinions on things and our tastes vary, but don't be a dick about it. Rant in your own space, not at other people.

[haebin.livejournal.com]

I didn't even know that there is something like hate-watching. O_O I have never heard it before, but I know this feeling. I tend to do it with a lot of things. Series, movies, even Let's Plays. I always have the hope that there is one point, where it gets better but for 99% it stays bad or gets worse. :(
I wish I would have the ability to stop watch/read things I don't like. :/

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I think we all do the first category I mentioned where it's when you were watching something (usually a television series, but other things in media count too) that decline in quality and we're just sitting there like, "you used to be good, what happened?" and we kinda hang on for as long as we can to see if it ever improves. I think that's just the nature of being a fan of something, you want it to succeed and do better because you care about it, and it's disappointing when it doesn't and you just need to vent about it.

I feel like that's a different thing from hate-watching altogether, where it's just people going into a something knowing that it's not their thing, knowing that they're not the target audience, and then come out only just to bash it and anyone who loves it. Hate-consuming anything in this manner just seems like a waste of time and energy, imho. Also, it skews things from the ratings/viewings to probably influencing others with their bias, which is quite an issue in itself.

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

Supernatural was also one I dropped a few years back. It was just not doing it for me anymore and that's a lot of time spent on something I didn't enjoy.

Agreed about distance. I actually didn't love the latter half of season three of Veronica Mars but after some time when I rewatched and found myself quite delighted by it. Not every episode was great but they set up something really neat in the end and I'm sad it didn't get to follow up on it more.