SPN: "Point of No Return" Episode Review + Meta

[rogueslayer452]

My brain is still scattered with thoughts, but I wrote them out anyway. Might be all over the place, I don't know. I have more thoughts that I'll post later, because my brain isn't done processing everything yet. But there's some thinky-thoughts accompanied by sparkletext and gifs. ;D

Supernatural 5.18 "Point Of No Return"

In needs to prevent Dean from going to the angels and saying yes to becoming Michael's vessel, Sam, Castiel and Bobby give him a slight intervention in hopes he'll reconsider his actions that they will find another way, although Dean stubbornly doesn't believe so. This leads to be locked in the panic room to prevent him from leaving and for a very, um, physical moment between him and Castiel after he tries escaping. In the middle of this, however, they are interrupted once realizing that the angels have shifted their plans as they had resurrected the Winchester's half-brother, Adam, in saying that because he has Winchester blood running through him he's the next viable candidate to becoming Michael's vessel. Adam had been manipulated and told lies by Zachariah in saying that in exchange of agreeing to their terms of stopping Lucifer, he would be able to see his mother in Heaven. Sam and Dean try to warn him about the angels and their plans, but Adam doesn't believe them, until it is too late when he's taken to the Angel Room and being told straightforward it was all a setup to get Dean to come to them. In a huge intense moment towards the end, Castiel wards off a gang of angels by banishing them (along with himself), Dean ends up killing Zachariah, but not before he says yes which, while they to escape, Adam gets trapped inside the room and is presumed that Michael got to him.

Character's faiths and trust in others are put to the test, sacrifice, and badass moments which lead to interesting and fascinating outcomes to what this could all mean for the Apocalypse, as we're down to the final four episodes of Supernatural's fifth season.


Dean and Castiel: Out Of Friendship, Trust and Betrayal

Never mind how immensely awesome the slash innuendos and the unresolved sexual tension was both in subtext and text from the episode, leaving my Dean/Castiel shipper heart to go a-squee, there was quite a shift from the normal Dean and Castiel interaction seen in this episode than in previous episodes. From a simple glance to how they regarded each other, it's an interesting contrast, particularly when you understand everything that these characters are going through and how deep their desperation has gotten. Dean's faith has been slowly dwindling away so he has nothing left to give, nothing left to offer, whereas with Castiel it's like this huge bombshell in a short period of time, and he has more pent up frustration when he sees that Dean is deeply considering just giving up.

What happened in the alleyway was the result of both of them acting completely in desperation. Some may ask, well how come Castiel wailed on Dean like that, beating him into a bloody pulp? Why couldn't he have just talked to him? Well, take into consideration that Castiel probably came down to the panic room to do just that, but Dean made the mistake in using the banishing sigil on him to escape. The thing is, even when pushed to that point of becoming angry Castiel has always been reserved, always held himself back; he has never once raised his hand or fought Dean in such a way before. So that whole scene is a mixture of raw emotions for him, things he's been feeling for some time but didn't allow himself to express them so adamantly, until now.

"I rebelled for this?! So you could surrender to them? I gave everything for you, and this is what you give me?!"



In my opinion, Castiel has the right to be angry, to be enraged especially at Dean because he is correct. Castiel has done nothing but give everything to Dean, everything he's ever done, all the things he's given up, his family and his home, all for Dean and his cause for "team free will"; he has faith in Dean, had faith in what they were fighting for. And like hell is he just going to sit back and watch Dean disintegrate and just lay down like a dog and give up. Take into account how Dean convinced Castiel into fighting the good fight, into doing what is right instead of what was ordered from him in 4.22 "Lucifer Rising"; Castiel believed in that Dean, he believed in that mission, that cause. With everything that's been happening, you can't fault Castiel for feeling the way he does, for acting the way he did, for feeling so utterly betrayed. Especially since Dean was acting, well, kinda like a dick not just to Castiel but towards everyone, really.

But it's understandable from Dean's side, as well. We've seen him gradually dwindle into this state for a long while now, it was only a matter of time before he just snapped and screamed yes at the top of his lungs.

Dean Winchester has always had that cross to bear, the weight of everything on his shoulders, and the fact that he has muddled through this long says something. But the pressure, the feeling of hopelessness and just not knowing how any other alternative could work without having someone else get caught in the crossfire, Dean feels like he needs to do this. That there is no other way but this. Ever the martyr, Dean. But at the same time, this isn't the same Dean Winchester who was all but fighting against destiny and prophecy, who would die before becoming some archangel sockpuppet in this war. Dean has been feeling tired, exhausted, that no matter what happens there's always another obstacle to overcome, always something else to remind him that there is nothing he can do. When Adam comes back he makes a notable point, about why wouldn't someone do anything to stop Lucifer. That's the kind of mindset someone would have, if they didn't know the alternative motives the angels have in mind. Perhaps Dean was heading in that direction, in that by just defying and refusing to say yes, he's prolonging further destruction and he's more or less causing the end of humanity rather than helping saving it. So it's understandable from his point of view, even if we know that he cannot just give up like this, that he must have faith, either in himself or in others around him.

Although that doesn't really excuse his behavior in the beginning. He treated everyone either like crap or without any kind of regard; towards Bobby, Sam and even Castiel. That's the Dean Winchester way of pushing them away, I guess, because of what he's going to do and no matter what they say there's nothing that will change his mind. Stubborn Winchester is stubborn.

Though honestly? I really wish that Dean would at least give acknowledgment to everything Castiel has given for him. Because Castiel left his home, his family, everything behind so he can join Dean in this fight, the fight for humanity to win. Even though we kinda know that they've been budding around on the show, that level of trust between them, sometimes it would be nice to have another meaningful talk between them about everything, kind of the way Sam and Dean do repeatedly about how much they've sacrificed over the years. I feel like not only do we need to hear it, but Castiel needs to hear it, too. Castiel may see inside of Dean, may know him better than anyone from the good to the downright worst things he's done, but Castiel needs to hear the words coming from Dean himself. At least, I think so anyway. To give him some comfort, some reassurance that whatever happens they are in this together.

"I'm sorry, Dean. I don't have the same faith in you that Sam does."

This statement from Castiel hurt, but I think it's a half-truth. I still believe that Castiel does have faith in Dean, but that faith has somewhat dwindled due to seeing inside of Dean in knowing that he could be swung either way. Before he knew that Dean wouldn't give into Zachariah and the angels that easily, but now he's seen that Dean was willing to banish him in order to surrender to them. I think Castiel still takes that personally, that punch in the gut for everything he's done for him. Although Castiel is still willing to sacrifice himself for Dean, for the Winchesters and for humanity, his disappointment in Dean still lingers because of it. Which again, he has every reason to be upset and disappointed because all he's done is give and give and give, do everything and anything for Dean. But that doesn't mean Dean can just turn his back on everything. The fact that Castiel is willing to make a suicidal attempt in helping them once again still says that he's in this fight still, and that says something, that he still is dedicated to Dean regardless.

Of course, this was more to get to the point that it's about Sam and Dean, about their brotherly relationship and how they've reconnected on that kind of level towards the end of being on the same page once again. But the relationship between Dean and Castiel still needs to be repaired in the same way, too. Dean needs to show Castiel that he still is in the fight, that he hasn't given up. I firmly believe this is a testament of their faiths, of their beliefs and trust in each other. Love hurts, it's never easy, and this is why I believe this bump in Dean and Castiel's friendship will only make them stronger in the end. To understand through thick and thin, they'll be in this fighting side by side together, no matter what.

They've all hit that certain rock bottom, raw emotions spilling over them, from hopelessness and losing of faith to downright anger and rage and sheer disappointment. Hopefully, with the last remaining episodes of the season, they can work it out and hop right back into this fight with full force.


Theory: The Righteous Man, Servant of Heaven, and the One True Vessel

There's been plenty of discussion and theories regarding what happened in the end of the episode when Dean killed Zachariah, following in with the "only angels can kill other angels" notion and the fact that Dean looked directly at Zachariah when his Grace was destroyed into oblivion. This leaves us with many lingering questions and things to ponder on where the show is going.

We've been given hints that Dean is a much greater deal than we think, rather than just being some kind of human vessel for an archangel. There's something deeper and more meaningful to the role he's supposed to play. Whether this is in connection to his special destiny or this is something else entirely, there's no doubt the show is presenting us with clues to what this special something within Dean is supposed to mean, and what it means for Team Free Will and the rest of humanity and the outcome of this war. We first give evidence to there being something different about Dean from 5.17 "99 Problems" when he kills the Whore of Babylon, something that only a servant of Heaven is capable of doing. This could have convinced Dean into thinking due of this act he must just give into destiny and surrender himself, but it could also mean something else. That Dean doesn't need to become a vessel of an archangel to fight this war, and we've seen Dean fight so fiercely before, and by killing not just the Whore of Babylon but killing an angel without any repercussions, this can only mean one thing.

Humanity will prevail in this war, if Dean absolutely is right in bringing the fight to Heaven and to Lucifer's forces, and he believes this is the right course of action and that he has that willpower of doing so, then yes, they will win.

However this works, whatever the reason for Dean having the capability of killing two indestructible and impossoble-to-kill beings, what I'm hoping for is that this is going to not be retconning and giving the deus ex machina of giving Dean "special powers" to defeat Lucifer. As I've mentioned before, Supernatural is about the strength of humanity, the Winchesters are the representations of fighting for humanity, and to do so with the help of angelic powers or sorts would kind of be a cop-out. Since I believe their destinies are greater than that, greater than having some higher superpower allowing them to save the world then return to their normal lives. It has to be themselves and themselves alone. Dean just has to have the faith and belief that what he's doing is in the right. That's what's going to lead them to win this, because without faith in oneself how can you have faith in the cause? Going into something half-hearted doesn't exactly work as efficiently as you'd think, which is what led Dean down this road of hopeless despair. He just didn't have the heart or faith, so he needs to find that pick-me-up again and become the kickass hunter we all know and love.

There's also evidence from this episode that they haven't forgotten about the true forms and voices of angels can destroy and kill regular humans, the beginning scene was very pointed at that. So that last scene when we purposefully focus on Dean's eyes wasn't just for artistic play of showing in a reflection what was happening to Zachariah, it also gives more clues and hints that Dean is becoming who he was meant to be. There's no denying that greater significance of that scene from that shot alone. His power, his strength, comes from within, and in mind that he has only been able to do these things when he truly believes in it. That's the key here, that's what we should be looking for.

Now whether was able to kill Zachariah only because he technically did say "yes" in that moment or because of something else is up for further discussion and debate, because I don't really know myself. But my theory still stands that this is setting us up for some excellent humanity versus Heaven versus Hell standoff, and I really hope it's gonna be frakking good. Because four episodes left isn't a whole lot of time to really bring this apocalypse house down.


The Winchesters: It's Always Been About Family

What I appreciate about this episode was how emotionally dynamic it all was and how relevant it was to the entire cause. The intense focus on family, blood-related or otherwise, and the trust that comes with it.

Dean felt he couldn't trust Sam because of the decisions he's made in the past which, okay, is kinda understandable. But I honestly felt for Sam in this because he has been trying, especially in the last several episodes he's been trying so fucking hard. I love that despite that it is Sam that still has faith and trust in Dean, which I think kind of blindsided even Dean. Maybe Dean still feels like he shouldn't have someone trust him completely like that, someone who knows him and believes in him. But we see everyone else surrounding him is continuing on with this fight because of him. Bobby's intense speech was entirely because of that, Castiel fighting Dean was because of it, even with Sam calmly explaining himself was because of that, too. Even though yeah, it's hard to muddle through when people you care about are caught in the crossfire, don't forget about those who stick by you through those hard times.

Zachariah knew they would go after Adam because family is their weakness, but it's also their strength, something that Zachariah didn't count on. It's because of Sam's trust in Dean that made Dean reconsider at that last second with his plan, to make such a turnaround. Because of this action, Sam and Dean are back to being Sam and Dean, at least a newer version of because they have regained a level of trust and connection. They are making it through.

Family has been a huge factor in the show, not just with humans but with the angels, too. Sam and Dean, Michael and Lucifer; the disappointment Castiel has for his family in Heaven, of being cast out, shunned. One can only hope that it all works out for everyone in the end, one way or another.


Memorable Moments of the Episode:

++ The opening scene with Zachariah in the bar, bitching about his job position to some random human was just fantastic. The notion of having Heaven being something like a corporate business organization makes for a great parallel and better understanding about the roles every angel plays; Zachariah is one of the bosses/superiors of a smaller division of angels, but he, too, has that larger than life boss (Michael, I'm presuming?) that is taking control while the Big Man Upstairs is on vacation. It's kind of interesting, because that means the roles of angels in mythology don't necessarily stick; the archangels still apply, but certain angels can be either promoted or demoted depending. In this scene, it seemed like Zachariah was demoted until he was given another chance. Plus, him going "no, that's my boss" and then singing while he left was just comical, if not morbid considering what happened to those two men.

++ Dean placing his beloved possessions inside that box, from his leather jacket to his gun, and then writing that letter? Very effective scene. It definitely resembled him committing suicide, which he was and wasn't.

++ Did this episode begin directly after last episode? Like, him going to that motel by himself was the day after he went to visit Lisa? It would seem like it. And if so, that would explain the epic pissiness from Castiel, that post-hangover attitude I've seen in plenty of people before. With added angst, feelings of betrayal and devastation, to boot.

++ BAMF!CASTIEL WAS SO BADASS THIS EP. RESPECT THIS FIERCE MOTHERFUCKER.



++ JAKE ABEL! \O/ I loved him coming back as Adam, the third Winchester. All the butthurt comments about OMG THERE CANNOT BE ANOTHER WINCHESTER IT IS ONLY SAM AND DEAN better stfu because honestly? I love him. He was being a bitchy and stubborn teenager, which is in-character and spot-on for someone who never met these people before and doesn't know anything about what's happening. SO YAY FOR ADAM.

++ "Because they're angels." This is actually a very good point Adam makes. Unless you're completely in the loop with how manipulative these angels are, most people are going to believe that angels are there to help us. That's the common knowledge about angels in our culture and society. So I can't really blame Adam for thinking that.

++

DEAN: Blow me, Cas.
CASTIEL: *frowns* Here Dean, in public?

++ "The last time a person looked at me like that, I got laid."

"The last time a person looked at me like that, I got laid."

"THE LAST TIME A PERSON LOOKED AT ME LIKE THAT, I GOT LAID."

DEAN COMMENTED ON THE EYESEX. CASTIEL LOOKING LIKE HE WANTS TO POUNCE HIM. JUST, GUH. I JUST ABOUT DIED. I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ACTUALLY WAS SAID IN THIS EPISODE. ALONG WITH THAT WINK! THEY ARE DELIBERATELY WRITING A LOVE LETTER TO SLASH FANS ON THIS SHOW, AMIRITE? THE EPIC FANSERVICE IS JUST BEING DELIVERED TO US LEFT AND RIGHT OMG. DEAN/CASTIEL IS COMPLETELY CANON. NOBODY CAN CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE.

THANK YOU KRIPKE. THANK YOU JEREMY CARVER. JUST, THANK YOU. :D :D :D

++ EPIC WALL!SLAMMING = ANGRY!SEX TIMES. <3333

++ "You know Sam and Dean Winchester are psychotically, irrationally, EROTICALLY codependent on each other, right?" LOL @ THIS! Again, fanservice, this show provides it.

++ Can I just mention that, as a whole, I fucking love how bitchy Castiel is? I love my bitchy BAMF angel who is fucking fierce and doesn't take anyone's shit, just goddamn. Misha is extra hot when he's being all aggressive and intense. Especially when he's all arm-folded and looking pissy at Dean. The eyesex would be even more epic with just them glaring at each other like that alone, just wow.



++ I'm with Dean, I am kinda disappointed that the angel room was being held in some random abandoned warehouse in California (BUT YAY! HOME STATE REPRESENTING! LOL @ RANDOM PALM STREETS AS TEAM FREE WILL STRUTTING BY) Mostly because I thought that they would have their hiding quarters in a less, well, obvious kind of place. But I love that Castiel was all matter-of-fact like, what, you were expecting something else? lol

++ I love that despite how disappointed Castiel was in Dean in this episode, he was willing to give once more for their cause by taking on one BADASS MOTHERFUCKING PLAN on ridding the gang of angels protecting the room sot the Winchesters could get a lucky break. He's still willing to die for Dean, again, and I think that says a lot about how much Castiel still has faith in him, at least enough to do this. He could be all "I've got nothing left to lose" but I don't think that's it, he still believes in fighting the good fight with them, being for Team Free Will and all that. But just, yeah. And seriously, how can you question where his loyalties lie when he MOTHERFUCKING CARVED THE BANISHING SIGIL DIRECTLY ONTO HIS CHEST!? GODDAMN THAT IS HARDCORE.

I do wonder, did he use whatever powers he had inside of him to keep the wound from leaking through? Because he has that white dress shirt on, and blood causing stains. Either way, that was just badass to the bone. BAMF!CAS = LOVE. <3 <3 <3 <3 I just hope he's okay and returns to his Dean for some epic apologies and comfort!sex.....

++ DEAN KILLING ZACHARIAH = AWESOMESAUCE. But it's also kind of sad because I loved to hate him. He was the best antagonistic angel on the show since Uriel, all that corporate Heaven stuff I mentioned before it all made sense with him. I just, I kinda loved seeing him and wanting to see what other manipulative shit he would do next. Just because. I'll miss his weasley, skeezy self. KURT FULLER YOU WERE AWESOME.

++ FUCK YEAH, TEAM FREE WILL IS BACK IN BUSINESS, BIATCHES!


Overall: I found this to be an excellent episode to be the 100th of the series, perhaps one of my top favorites of the season no doubt about that. I know some people were expecting more or whatever, but as someone who didn't read any spoilers this was a win of an episode. Emotional character arcs definitely are a plus, and the added epic blatant slash innuendos were surely the highlights are the entire episode, no fucking doubt about that either. It's what got fandom all capslocking and squeeing and shit, because we've had subtext before but hot damn they provided actual text this time. All we needed to see was some bumping and grinding in the alleyway between Dean/Castiel and it wouldn't have fazed us one bit because, HELLO SEXUAL TENSION YOU CAN CUT WITH A KNIFE! :D I feel like Kripke is sending us as much love as possible before the season ends, because next season I doubt we'll be getting as much slash undertones with who's been picked to be the forerunner, let alone that Jeremy Carver could very well be leaving the show. *grumbles* This episode was more about those emotional points than plot, but the plot that was shown was there because it added more mysterious depth to what direction they're heading about Dean and his destiny. I thought it was superbly done, very intense.

Loved everything, from the fight scenes -- which I mock the stupid question asked at the LA Con, "were these fight scenes like, choreographed or whatever? *durrr hurrr*" -- the tension between characters, just everything. I LOVE THIS SHOW LIKE A BURNING AND IT IS JUST AWESOME OKAY?

Four more episodes left, think we can make it? *crosses fingers*


And because I still have to get through a ton of codas from this episode alone (ilu fandom, seriously), here's one I deeply recommend because it is just that good and guh-worthy.

Walled In (Dean/Castiel, R) by annundriel
Castiel feels...frustrated and useless and angry, so very angry.

IT IS FANTASTIC YOU GUYS! IT FITS WITH MY KINKS AND JUST, GUH YES. I LOVE THIS FANDOM SO SO MUCH. <3 <3 NEVER LEAVE ME, PRECIOUS PPL! *clings*

Comments

[bold-seer.livejournal.com]

"were these fight scenes like, choreographed or whatever? *durrr hurrr*"

No, but we gave the actors some real, really sharp knives and hoped for the best.

BRB.

[bold-seer.livejournal.com]

I really wish that Dean would at least give acknowledgment to everything Castiel has given for him. & Even though we kinda know that they've been budding around on the show, that level of trust between them, sometimes it would be nice to have another meaningful talk between them & I feel like not only do we need to hear it, but Castiel needs to hear it, too.

YES. I and we and Castiel want and need that so very much. And Dean does care and does get it, so why not? Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how they'll interact in their next scene. After all, Castiel just gave EVERYTHING for Dean, once again.

But Dean banishing Castiel was such an ouch moment. Using that against Cas - I'd be angry, too, if I were him. I did watch the fight clip before the episode and thought it was somewhat fitting, but it made so much more sense in context.

The opening scene with Zachariah in the bar, bitching about his job position to some random human was just fantastic.

I loved it! It was exactly what SPN is at its best, morbid, funny, shocking, right and wrong - all at once. The singing. Sort of a better version of the opening scene in 5x14, because it doesn't make you (want to) retch.

I have no idea what to think about the light in Dean's eyes and him killing an angel.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Precisely, and the fact they made it so poignant with their scenes this episode alone, from just the way Castiel was acting towards Dean to his words to him the entire episode (the glaring, the bitchy!telekinetic door slam, etc). I hope there will be a continuation from what happened because Castiel really did just put everything on the line for him. Hell, it was even said that he didn't care if the plan of action he was taking was almost like suicide, he would do it. For Dean. And with their confrontation in the alleyway was anything to go by, I hope there's something in acknowledgment from Dean about it because, damn. Give that poor angel a bone or something, he deserves to know that everything he's doing isn't for nothing.

I really loved this episode because it lets us explore Castiel's emotions even more, all of which are consuming him at such a rapid rate. His disappointed and devastation about God, adding more of that disappointment and outrage at Dean and what he's just giving up. I don't blame him for getting all worked up and letting those frustrations out.

I loved it! It was exactly what SPN is at its best, morbid, funny, shocking, right and wrong - all at once.

Yeah, pretty much. It just added to how amazing the show can be sometimes with how particular scenes are shot and setup. The dialogue was just so hilarious.

I have no idea what to think about the light in Dean's eyes and him killing an angel.

Awww, lol don't worry bb. It's been giving me a whirlwind of headaches trying to understand the very concept myself. Like, I started having theories and I've been reading other people's theories on the subject, but quite frankly it's all in the fanwanking category at this point. It can go in any direction and with four eps to go, I want to know what they're gonna do with that.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

WHO NEEDS INSURANCE WHEN YOU HAVE THUNDERDOME ON SET EVERY SINGLE WEEK! BLOODBATHS, KNIFE FIGHTS! ALL REAL, ALL FOR THE SAKE OF THE SHOW! KRIPKE AND CO ALL PLACE BETS ON THE ACTORS TO SEE WHICH ONE GETS CUT UP THE MOST (answer: Jared, because he's such a pussy, lol!)

XD

[mulder200.livejournal.com]

Wow! I love your deep thoughts because they so match my own.

I feel like this eps. was bout having faith. Not faith in God or a higher power but just in yourself. I feel like that is something they all need. They need to have faith IN EACH OTHER because without they are lost.

And I so agree with you about Dean and Cas. I mean I know the show is about Sam and Dean and their issues but damnit! There are other people who matter as well. Just like Dean and Sam can have their meaningful talks, I want to see something like that with Dean and Castiel just like in S4. However, I am worried that may be asking too much.

Still, that is what fan fiction is for.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Thanks! :D

I feel like this eps. was bout having faith. Not faith in God or a higher power but just in yourself. I feel like that is something they all need. They need to have faith IN EACH OTHER because without they are lost.

My thoughts exactly. There's been a lot of devastation and hopelessness going around with these characters, and I feel like the only character that hasn't really given up has been Sam. Funnily, since I didn't particularly care for him in S4 and somewhat in the beginning of this season, but he's really stepping up and I love how it was because of his trust in Dean that made him turn his decision around. But yes, from Bobby to Dean and to Castiel, they all need to really start having faith in themselves and in each other because without that they really are truly lost and without hope.

I want to see something like that with Dean and Castiel just like in S4. However, I am worried that may be asking too much.

I don't think that's asking too much, bb. They've really placed a lot of stock in saying that Dean and Castiel have a close companionship this season, perhaps a little more than last season esp since they're on the same page. But we just need more scenes between them with heart-to-heart talks and whatnot, kinda like in 5.03 and in 5.17, and how can they just ignore that Castiel is a part of Dean's life just with him and his brother? I mean, even Dean and Bobby get a lot of scenes discussing their issues. It's about time we get some concerning Castiel and what he's feeling, even though this episode did explore more in that department. But I'd rather him talk about it with Dean rather than fight it out, you know?

Idk, I'm rambling now. But yeah, I don't think it's too much to ask because they deserve it, Castiel deserves something at least. Because he has sacrificed everything for Dean, they should talk out these issues more between them.

But yeah, when in doubt, fanfiction. ;)

[alexwhitman25.livejournal.com]

Though honestly? I really wish that Dean would at least give acknowledgment to everything Castiel has given for him. Because Castiel left his home, his family, everything behind so he can join Dean in this fight, the fight for humanity to win. Even though we kinda know that they've been budding around on the show, that level of trust between them, sometimes it would be nice to have another meaningful talk between them about everything, kind of the way Sam and Dean do repeatedly about how much they've sacrificed over the years. I feel like not only do we need to hear it, but Castiel needs to hear it, too.
THIS! ALL OF THIS! There are times when I really feel the need to smack Dean's ungrateful ass around. And I love the guy. But he's had these heart to hearts with both Bobby and Sam. It wouldn't kill him to, at the least, let Cas know that he appreciates his sacrifices.

If Cas wouldn't have believed in Dean so much and cared about him as much as he does, he wouldn't be half as hurt, disappointed and feeling betrayed. I love that they let him express all of this throughout the episode. And you know that these emotions have to overwhelming for him at this point. Feeling abandoned by God was bad enough, but Dean bailing on him was like the last straw. My jaw literally dropped when Dean used the banishing sigil on him. I was like woah, no wonder the guy lets all that anger and hurt out.

I love that they went there with the Dean and Cas relationship. But this demands followup and not a magic everything is behind them and never talked about again. And honestly I don't have a lot of faith in Show doing it. There is so much awesome material that could be mined here. And two great actors that can more than handle it.

You know my feelings on the killing Zach issue. And I really hope I'm not disappointed there. And I'm pretty nervous about how they are gonna tie everything up with only 4 eps to go.

I thought Jake Abel rocked it in this episode. I will always hate the idea of them having some brother they didn't know about that John never told them about and the way it was presented. Jump The Shark is high on my list of most hated episodes. But Jake was awesome.

I'm still wondering if Cas carved the sigils upside down on his chest himself? I'm wondering if he might have had some help.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I mean, I understand the show is fundamentally about the brothers but dammit, there are other people they are connected with too. Dean has had heart-to-hearts with different characters over the course of the series, hell I would prefer them to have more Dean/Castiel scenes than the repetitious Dean and Sam scenes they always have to the point where it's like, okay we get it, they're brothers and they have issues! Next please! (And I say this with knowing how much I do love the brother scenes, but sometimes they can be a bit ridiculous with repeating the same thing over and over)

Dean and Castiel have bonded since S4, they've made it clear they are together in this fight, that Castiel has given everything for Dean. But, the fact is, Dean needs to acknowledge and give some kind of verbal gratitude for all that Castiel has done for him, for this fight. That's it. Well, that and a meaningful hug. Is that so much to ask?

I love that they let him express all of this throughout the episode. And you know that these emotions have to overwhelming for him at this point. Feeling abandoned by God was bad enough, but Dean bailing on him was like the last straw. My jaw literally dropped when Dean used the banishing sigil on him. I was like woah, no wonder the guy lets all that anger and hurt out.

So much this. Castiel has always held a particular restraint even when he's all up in Dean's face, growling his anger. But that? That was like a major "fuck you" right in his face for everything he's given up. I mean I love Dean but dude, that was fucking harsh. To the one angel that has always had your back, you do that to him? Jesus fucking Christ. :O But it was a great character point for Castiel because he's finally unleashing all that pent up anger, desperation and hurt for everything that's been happening.

I do hope they have at least a talk about what happened after this, because I loved that they went there too. Which is why I'll say again, Sam and Dean have done that to ad nauseum with their issues, I think it's about time to break away from that and have Dean and Castiel talk out their issues, or at least make amends for what happened. It was such a HUGE HUGE deal to bring all that up in this episode regarding their relationship in general, so for them not to revisit it would just be stupid.

You know my feelings on the killing Zach issue. And I really hope I'm not disappointed there. And I'm pretty nervous about how they are gonna tie everything up with only 4 eps to go.

Yeah. I mean, I love this show and I do love this season but, as a whole, I think I prefer S4 a bit more because it had a nice level of balancing out its episodes and handling of what was happening content-wise. They didn't seem to have a good grip on handling the Apocalypse this season because it was all over the place. Either filler episodes that didn't acknowledge the end of the world or it makes it seem like the Apocalypse takes about a year to come forth with all this grueling scary shit. To wrap everything up in four episodes seems a bit of a close close, idk.

Jake Abel was just awesome. I'm iffy about the brother thing too, but I think I'm more accepting than most are because I can see where they were heading with it. But I like that Jake has been pulling off at least three different characters now (fake!Adam, ghoul!Adam, and now real!Adam) and hopefully, if suspicions are true, if he returns he'll be Michael!Adam. :D I think that's kind of amazing for an actor to do, to be challenged in that way.

I'm still wondering if Cas carved the sigils upside down on his chest himself? I'm wondering if he might have had some help.

There's been some theorizing through fics that Castiel had either Sam or Dean carve the sigil on his chest for him, which I wouldn't doubt that would have happened. I think maybe Dean because he was facing Dean when he pulled out that knife.

[alexwhitman25.livejournal.com]

For srs. Honestly the brothers regurgitating of the same talks over and over again is part of why I stopped really giving a care about their dynamic. When the same speech is given numerous times, it stops holding weight for me. Well, that and their issues that they never seem to grow past. Every time I get excited that show is going to let them move on and grow as characters the same issue crops right back up a few episodes down the line. Thus, their relationship seems so stagnant to me. I want Sam to be a big boy that handles his responsibilites without arrogance and appreciates his brother's sacrifices AND STAY THAT WAY. I want Dean to gain some self-esteem and stop living his life like all that matters is Sam AND STAY THAT WAY. I want both brothers to develop relationships with other characters and develop new dynamics and learn to appreciate people other than each other instead of just living through each other.

They did such a good job with the Dean/Cas dynamic in S4 and it's progression and growth. They did some great work with it early in S5 too. But it's at the point where Dean needs to acknowledge just how far Cas has gone and is willing to go to help. Honestly I was pretty disappointed in his treatment of Cas in the episode where he took them back to the past. There needed to be more acknowledgement of the risk Cas put himself at and some appreciation of it. Sometimes it's like Cas gets treated as this handy tool they have to help them without consideration of the risk he puts himself at.

I'm actually kind of nervous about how they are going to tie this up. I mean we are at 4 eps to go and they still have no idea of a plan of attack. I'm really hoping this stuff with Dean is leading somewhere cause it's all I see as a possibility at this point. I don't want them just pulling something out of their ass in 5x21 and being like oh by gosh, this is how we are gonna do it.

I honestly have a love/hate relationship with S5. There have been flashes of brilliance and some really awesome episodes. But much of the season was wasted on standalone, pointless episodes. Too many opportunites for involved, interesting storylines were passed by and too many awesome characters were not utilized enough. I'm still disppointed in the real lack of Michael so far, as well as Luci not being used enough.

I'd like to think he made Dean do it. It would have been poetic after Dean using it on him like that to make him then carve it into his chest.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I want Dean to gain some self-esteem and stop living his life like all that matters is Sam AND STAY THAT WAY. I want both brothers to develop relationships with other characters and develop new dynamics and learn to appreciate people other than each other instead of just living through each other.

Yes, this. I kinda felt we were heading in that direction at the beginning of the season, and although I don't think the brothers should sever ties with each other they really should try to not be as codependent on the other as much. My main wish though, for this season, is for Dean to find that self-esteem and that faith inside of himself, which if my speculations are anything regarding what's been happening to him in these last two episodes, so he can really see that he can live without all this burden and be separated from his brother without actually being, you know, separated.

Sometimes it's like Cas gets treated as this handy tool they have to help them without consideration of the risk he puts himself at.

Yeah, I get what you mean. Like, I know that perhaps that's not the case since I'm sure they probably already know that, but sometimes it's better when characters acknowledge it. Because we've heard it from Castiel several times before, it's time that Dean returned the favor for his angel.

That's perhaps one of the show's main flaws, sometimes they don't necessarily think too well ahead about certain episode plots or storylines which either are executed poorly or it doesn't go as planned. It's kind of interesting that S4 was more in that deep, dark and depressing place emotionally with these characters than S5 has been (up until late, however, since we really reached such emotional arcs in these last few episodes alone) and it flowed much smoothly compared to how S5 has been feeling. I still love it, but I think if we're dealing with you know, the Apocalypse there should be more doom and gloom and less of the filler. I want this to feel like BSG in that sense. I mean sure, we're there now with all that's been happening in these last episodes, but where were these episodes earlier in the season? Are they going to connect certain aspects that'll probably be revealed in these last four to something that occurred in earlier episodes? Will it make sense with the continuity? Those are issues I'm having with any kind of show that tries to fit everything together in such a short period of time.

And the fact that the apocalypse plot is going to be wrapped up this season definitely leaves me wondering how everything is going to fit together.

I'm still disppointed in the real lack of Michael so far, as well as Luci not being used enough.

Agreed. I WANT MARKSHA BACK, DAMMIT SHOW! Also, I wanna see Death.

I'd like to think he made Dean do it. It would have been poetic after Dean using it on him like that to make him then carve it into his chest.

Oh definitely. Very poetic and somewhat fitting, especially since with all that happened between them in this episode.

[amechiro.livejournal.com]

YES. THIS.

I COULDN'T EVEN SLEEP AFTER WATCHING THIS EPISODE AND YESTERDAY I WAS LIKE "IS THIS REAL LIFE? SOMEONE PINCH ME!"

I'M STILL WALKING ON CLOUDS HERE. LOL. IN CONCLUSION:

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I'M STILL LIKE THAT TOO LIKE, DAYS LATER. THIS EPISODE GAVE ME SUCH A FANGIRL HIGH. I'M LIKE, SRSLY? DID ALL THAT JUST HAPPEN? :D :D :DDD I SERIOUSLY LOVE THIS EPISODE FOR BAMF!CASTIEL AND THE DEAN/CASTIEL USTING ALONE, GODDAMN.

AND WE ALL KNOW DEAN TOTALLY WANTS TO TAP THAT.

[cheerful-earl.livejournal.com]

I love this episode 30 times more because of all of the interesting thoughts people have had about it. <3 There is so much in this entry that I agree with! You're so right on about this episode, IMO.

Why couldn't he have just talked to him? Well, take into consideration that Castiel probably came down to the panic room to do just that, but Dean made the mistake in using the banishing sigil on him to escape.

Yes, exactly! I think had Dean not used the sigil to banish him, Cas would not have been nearly as angry. He was pissed before that, but that alley scene was pure desperation and anger. Cas gave up everything, and I think having Dean make it all for nothing by giving up broke him even more than God's (seeming) lack of care did, because you're right, Cas has never acted physically against Dean (other than 4.02, has he even ever threatened or alluded to it?).

the fact that Dean looked directly at Zachariah when his Grace was destroyed into oblivion.

That to me was so fascinating, because it was so deliberate. As you said, the scene at the beginning reminded us what happens when a human stares Grace in the face, and we saw virtually the same thing with Cas in the middle of the episode- staring directly into the light after dealing the killing blow.

I don't buy that it was only because he'd said "yes" already. They haven't completely explained what needs to happen for the "yes" to be valid, but it seems to have to be something specifically said to the angel, or else Michael would have slipped in as soon as Dean said it to Zach. Zachariah also implied that Dean could change his mind once Michael arrived. Neither thing implies to me that Dean was infused with any grace or angelicness when he killed Zach. I think it's something in Dean, but I'm not sure what. Maybe it goes back to "Lazarus Rising"- Cas was sure that Dean would be able to hear (and by implication, see) him. Maybe, as you said, as Dean becomes more sure of himself, he can withstand the speech and sight of the angels. Symbolically, it's pretty striking as well- Dean in that moment is literally as well as metaphorically able to withstand the angels.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I think the fun I've had was watching and reading people's reactions directly after the episode aired. So much capslocking and incoherency, it made me smile. Only when a SPN episode renders everyone completely into a puddle of incoherent goo do I not feel so bad for loving this show as much as I do. ;D

Cas gave up everything, and I think having Dean make it all for nothing by giving up broke him even more than God's (seeming) lack of care did, because you're right, Cas has never acted physically against Dean (other than 4.02, has he even ever threatened or alluded to it?).

Castiel has never threatened Dean since that episode, and that was more like "I am an angel bitch, respect" but since, never. Surely he's been angry with Dean, getting into his face but never threatening or physically harming him in any way. Because not only does he have deep affections for Dean, but also believes and has faith in him. And this? For Dean to just lose all sense of hope and wanting to give in, giving up everything he convinced Castiel to rebel and fight for? All that pain and confusion mixed with anger and frustration, all building up within him....it must be overwhelming. And I completely agree, it hurts him more because this is Dean. He is flesh and blood and he has seen evidence of his trust and faith and hope when everything is against them countless of times. So everything this episode showed us was how personally betrayed Castiel felt when seeing Dean like that, especially when Dean banished him because, ouch. It probably felt like a huge "fuck you" right in Castiel's face for everything he stood up and fought for.

They're just all on the edge, at that breaking point because everything, fate/destiny/prophecy, is coming down against them, saying there isn't any other way, etc. They are on the brink of desperation and exhaustion. And even at the end of the episode when everything seems to be straight between the brothers and they figured out what to do, there needs to be patching up between Dean and Castiel. Because they can't just have a huge emotional scenes between them like this and then not do anything about it.

Neither thing implies to me that Dean was infused with any grace or angelicness when he killed Zach. I think it's something in Dean, but I'm not sure what.

I'm thinking that, as well. It would definitely be a cop-out, character-wise, if there was any angelical help when Dean killed Zachariah. Because I believe it should be humanity that defeats this battle, because the whole Heaven vs Hell, while amazingly awesome, isn't what the show is about. So I definitely think that Dean has something inside of him that is giving him this strength. Dean has always had these burdens, he believes he doesn't deserve anything good, that good things don't happen? He's been selfless, never thinking about himself, but at the same time it's all in the negative. Perhaps once getting a clear head, with believing in not a divine being like God or another higher power, but within himself and those around him, is when this strength comes out. You know that mind over matter concept? That could also apply, as well. Think positively, having that kind of faith and hope. Dean has to understand himself in that aspect before anything else because otherwise it's weighing him down.

Wow, long comment is long, lol!

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Interesting. "Neurotically" is fitting in context of what Zachariah was saying, and it does sound exactly like "erotically". Though I think for the Wincest fangirls it wouldn't be as much fun. Heh.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Well, the show definitely likes to provide fanservice for either spectrum of the fandom. I mean hell, they had Wincest porn in the premiere episode this season on the intentional level, so I wouldn't put it passed Kripke and the writers to do something like that again with another character. ;) But I think in terms of context, yeah, "neurotically" does make more sense esp coming from Zachariah.

Dean belongs to Cas :p (Or vice versa, Im not so sure after this episode, lol)

Oh, Dean is totally Castiel's bitch. ;) Definitely. DID YOU SEE THAT WALL!SLAMMING AND THE "I DEMAND SOME RESPECT BITCH" GLARE FROM HIM? DOM!CAS = MY FAV. :DDDD

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

For me, whump!Castiel and BAMF!Castiel coincide with each other, I love them both. ;) It's the ultimate badassery when you have a character that can be whumped one moment but be a complete hardass the next second. Given how the previous episode we had a very whumped!Cas and it went directly to bitchy!BAMF!Castiel in this episode. It's almost like a complete 180, except we know that's exactly who Castiel is.

And I love it. <3

[etoile444.livejournal.com]

What I love about your icon of Dean/Cas is that it isn't even a manip! It doesn't have to be! The sexual tension in that scene was over the top...I greatly approve of it.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

They don't really have to try for scenes like this, it just comes naturally. There's nothing like Dean/Castiel UST, this is just trufax.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Dom!Cas is amazing, and I've come to more and more believe in sub!Dean. Now, though I'll read any Dean/Cas, the other way around feels slightly wrong to me. Cas takes charge, and Dean needs someone to care for him and a chance to let go of control for once.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I kinda love Castiel being on control, he's the one with the pants in the relationship, for sure. It's always been my view that Castiel is just this powerful, dominating force that although at times it doesn't seem like it, you shouldn't underestimate just how powerful and controlling he really is underneath. Which is why I prefer fics portraying Castiel as the BAMF that he is rather than some passive/submissive creature. Besides, it hits that kink spot for me whenever Castiel takes control like that just, unffff. ♥ This episode provided just that, and then some. :D

And yes, definitely. Dean needs to be taken care of, needs to let his guard down and if anything, Castiel is there to do just that. Which is why I kinda love their relationship as a whole on the show. Castiel can get right up into Dean's face and yet still show compassion at the same time, and I think that's what Dean needs.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Yes. I've read some sub!Cas fics that worked because he was clearly still BAMF and just subbing in bed. Still, I love in control Cas so much. It is a bit wierd that I like them this way because I relate a lot to Dean and tend to like to take charge more. It just works for them, though. Cas is such a powerful, controlling force. Dean forgets that sometimes, but that's really what he needs in his life.

Personally, I think Dean's always wanted that sort of force in his life. Growing up he had his father, who he looked up to. However, his father let him down, and Dean had to be the adult and raise Sam. Then, in hell, he had Alistair. His relationship with Alistair was all kinds of twisted and wrong, but I think that sense of having a controlling influence in his life was one reason he eventually gave in and why he made such a good protege. Now, though, he has Cas. I think once he realizes that Cas won't let him down like everyone else has, he'll get it through his thick skull that he isn't alone anymore.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Its more like the Wincesters insisting without proof that it is erotically and refusing to believe it could be anything else. At least, that's the sense I've gotten.

Personally, I don't think it matters because Zach is a jerk and a lier and so whatever he says should be taken with a grain of salt.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

WHAT? YOU MEAN THERE'S LIFE OUTSIDE OF SUPERNATURAL?! HOW CAN THIS BE! :O

Hee, seriously though, good luck with all of that (I remember having to write analysis papers, and papers in general, not exactly my idea of fun times). Can't wait for you to return to squee about this episode with me! :D

[beckytheelf.livejournal.com]

OMG THIS THIS THIS *AND* THIS BB! I always love your metas because you're so good at expressing yourself and fangirling at the same time. LOL. Well if that makes any sense.
I would also really like the show at some point to properly address the relationship between Castiel and Dean. All fanservice thoughts aside, it's something that really needs some more attention. Castiel has constantly shown how far he is willing to go for Dean and even when he says one thing, he still goes up against five angels on his own because he still has that faith in Dean.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Aww, thank you. :D I try my best to have at least something coherent in the form of thinky-thoughts along with squeeing about all the other stuff, lol.

And I completely agree with you. The show has always had strong, if repetitious, points connecting the Sam and Dean relationship, even the father-son relationship between Dean and Bobby. But they really do need to shed some more light on the relationship and connection between Dean and Castiel because they have a bond, a certain companionship that has formed over these last two seasons. To ignore having a meaningful, emotional kind of conversation to at least acknowledge how much Castiel has sacrificed would just be stupid. They are all in this together, and they've made such strong points, in this episode alone even, of how much Castiel has been feeling so abandoned and now personally betrayed by Dean because of his thoughts of giving up.

I mean yeah, I fangirl over anything Dean/Castiel obviously, but there's a deeper connection between them that one cannot ignore. With four episodes left, they really should touch on that subject because they made it so abundantly clear of how Castiel feels in this episode, and it would be stupid to not revisit it.

[etoile444.livejournal.com]

Dean just has to have the faith and belief that what he's doing is in the right. That's what's going to lead them to win this, because with faith in oneself how can you have faith in the cause?

There’s a sign on the wall in "Sam, Interrupted” that says: Believe in Yourself and anything is possible. I love how Show slips in stuff like that!

His power, his strength, comes from within, and in mind that he has only been able to do these things when he truly believes in it. That's the key here, that's what we should be looking for.

See this way Dean can still be human and defeat the angels. Ihope he has something special, but not in any deua ex machina way, just something inside him, his faith in himself to make him strong enough.

I really enjoyed your meta and sparkling squee!!! :)

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I love it when shows often do that, by having something in the background that foreshadow or give off subtle hints, something to really bring significance to a particular scene or moment without realizing it. Supernatural often does this with its setting, or even with the theme of lighting/shadow placements. What is not statement can be voiced through that, and it's what makes watching anything so much fun when looking for those little clues hidden cleverly throughout.

Dean finding faith and belief within himself is something I deeply hope for, because Dean always has this cross to bear and he doesn't hold that strong of faith in himself. I feel like before the show ends we need to see Dean find that faith and hope and understanding, because he deserves it, dammit.

In my head, it's not SPN without the meta and sparkle!squee. ;)

[a-carnal-mink.livejournal.com]

Excellent review. Sparkle on, dood. ;D

I would have more involved and intelligent things to say in response, but the hawt appears to have killt them all ded. *le sigh*

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Hee, thank you! :D

That's understandable. I mean, I was an incoherent mess after the episode aired, so teh hawt rendering one speechless I can definitely understand. (like your icon for instance, holy wow). ;)

[a-carnal-mink.livejournal.com]

(like your icon for instance, holy wow)

Isn't it magnificent?? :D That was the very first time I've used it, too. Good to see it get some lovin', straight out of the gate. ;) It was made by devlin_dream, btw, and is snaggable from her post (http://devlin-dream.livejournal.com/518.html).

[silverusagi]

Awesome post! I really have nothing to add. Emotions were running high from all characters this episode, and it was wonderfully done. I would like to see some sort of reconciliation scene between Dean and Cas. Not for a shippy reason, but just because they didn't part on the best of terms. And I'm also very interested in why Dean could look at (and hey, kill) Zachariah. (Because I think it's sort of lame that humans can kill angels, if they just have the right sword. I very much liked the spin that only angels can kill other angels. Even Alistair and Lilith didn't know how to kill angels.)

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I would like to see some sort of reconciliation scene between Dean and Cas. Not for a shippy reason, but just because they didn't part on the best of terms.

Oh, most definitely. The fact that they made such a huge point for Castiel to react in that kind of way, even treating Dean a bit differently than before, cannot be ignored the next time they see each other. This was huge in terms of their relationship because Castiel really has sacrificed everything for Dean and what he believed in, and I really want there to be a reconciliation or sorts and in a meaningful way, not just a throwaway comment about what happened.

Because I think it's sort of lame that humans can kill angels, if they just have the right sword. I very much liked the spin that only angels can kill other angels. Even Alistair and Lilith didn't know how to kill angels

This, exactly. I like the concept that angels are basically indestructible because they are otherworldly beings as opposed to the other paranormal the brothers have faced, all of which are Earth/human-originated, therefore have some way of being killed, whereas angels are celestial beings. They've mentioned time and again that it's not easy killing angels, and had there been an alternative Castiel would have made sure to hand either Dean or Sam those swords ages ago. And if they're going to pull out the "oh look, humans can kill angels after all!" thing from their asses, that's just lazy writing to wrap up the season and apocalypse storyline. So yeah, I severely hope that's not the case and that instead, this has something in connection to Dean's special role in everything.

[silverusagi]

>>They've mentioned time and again that it's not easy killing angels, and had there been an alternative Castiel would have made sure to hand either Dean or Sam those swords ages ago.

I wondered about this in 5x13, since the boys were trying to use Castiel's knife against Anna. At the time, I just assumed that they had it because maybe it could do some physical damage to her, even if it couldn't kill her. But now, I just don't know. I hope that Dean looking at Zachariah as he killed him is significant, that there's going to be some explanation of how he could do that and kill Zach. Still, I keep coming back to the fact that Sam was clearly also trying to kill Zach. Did Sam think he could with that sword, even though he was human? Or was he just trying to distract Zach so Dean could do it? And why did Dean think he could do it? Granted, he never heard Uriel's line, but if humans couldn't kill angels, why would Cas give them the swords? Ack, it makes my head hurt.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I thought back to that too, which you'd think logically even if they couldn't kill an angel with the sword it would at least harm or weaken them long enough. Because didn't Castiel pack not only the swords but also the holy oil as well? So I think then they were thinking in any way possible to stop Anna from achieving her task, or maybe they thought that Castiel would be fine enough to complete the task himself (before realizing how weakened he was during the time travel). Which probably is what happened with Zachariah, since their main task was to get Adam out, so stabbing Zachariah would be in self-defense and temporarily weaken him in some way to accomplish that. So I definitely think there's a bigger significance for Dean actually killing Zachariah (let alone watching him explode, which would've normally burned out his eyes).

But it's strange since the boys didn't mention it in the car if killing Zachariah was something of an oddity. Unless that's for the next upcoming episodes, idk. It really is quite mind-boggling.

[silverusagi]

I know. They definitely took holy oil to take care of Anna.

And you'd think that one of them *would* have mentioned killing Zachariah as signigifcant.

Really, I'm also sort of...annoyed isn't the right word, but miffed, maybe...that every angel now comes with a sword. These are obviously the grunts on the ground, yet they have these swords that were quite a big deal up until this point. Uriel obviously wasn't supposed to have his. Then Anna took it. And then Castiel was resurrected with one just in time to save Dean and Sam (do you think he had the sword on his person when he died, even though we never saw him with it, or God gave it to him?). And all of a sudden, every angel has one. I guess you can fanwank it that it's now the Apocalypse, so they're given them? Or the fact that Castiel is the only angel who's against them, and they need a way to kill him. (I also have a problem with henchmen angels. It just seems that it's diminishing them somehow. They all wear suits and die before they do anything. Which, I guess it just shows how badass Castiel is, but I don't like the uniformity of them. Angels, even though they're dicks, should be *more*, you know? Even the henchmen angels who came to take Anna away in 4x21 looked like real people, not cardboard cutouts in suits. What's with the suits, anyway?)

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

I guess you can fanwank it that it's now the Apocalypse, so they're given them? Or the fact that Castiel is the only angel who's against them, and they need a way to kill him.

I kind of figured it's both of those reasons, actually, which is probably why I'm not really that upset of confused by the majority of the angels wielding swords now given the high stakes they're all playing here; the apocalypse and a rogue angel on their tail. Though interestingly, when Castiel returned after being resurrected he had his sword with him. That has me wondering if God had provided that sword for him when he was brought back. Either way, I think it's kind of awesome really, very biblical.

What's with the suits, anyway?

There's been a reference to Heaven being similar to a big corporate organization (and I note Kurt Fuller explaining how he started portraying Zachariah, which from the beginning scene in this episode makes a lot of sense) so I think they're going in that kind of direction about the organization and direction of Heaven and its angels in the metaphorical sense. Which, in a way, they are kind of collective like that despite being somewhat individuals, if that makes any kind of sense. Although in 4.21, those henchmen angels were wearing suits, just in a different style. But it's kind of interesting how they have all the angels appearing wearing those same kind of suit styles, never minding how some angels (that unknown blonde angel in 4.16) were kind of almost very casual-looking.

Of course, I've thought about how Jimmy Novak dressed in his suit and trench coat before going outside to talk to Castiel. Why did he dress himself up like that? Was it protocol for angels to ask their vessels to dress in such a way?

[silverusagi]

Well, the archangels don't put on airs like that, lol. Lucifer still wears Nick's clothing and wedding ring, and Raphael had no problem not using his awesome powers to change that mechanic's clothing. And Gabriel, well, enough said. :)

The angels are like a collective, I suppose. At least they seem that way now. But I didn't get that feeling in S4. The angels in 4.21 were dressed nicely. But they weren't dressed like...well, Reapers. I can't unsee it. All the angels now are just like all those Reapers we saw in Abandon All Hope. Plain black suits.

>Of course, I've thought about how Jimmy Novak dressed in his suit and trench coat before going outside to talk to Castiel. Why did he dress himself up like that? Was it protocol for angels to ask their vessels to dress in such a way?

Then why didn't Castiel tell him to ditch that crappy trenchcoat, LOL? He'd fit right in with the other angels in the suit.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that is true. There are some angels that just don't give a damn either way, which could be part of their personality while the others are part of a collective I suppose? I don't know. I think it's more along the lines of distinguishing them from the demons who just couldn't care less about the individual they are possessing. Which, in my opinion, is kind of interesting and clever of presenting the angels in such a way.

I can't unsee it. All the angels now are just like all those Reapers we saw in Abandon All Hope. Plain black suits.

LOL now there's any image! Can you imagine these angels amongst the Reapers? YOU CANNOT TELL THEM APART OMGWHUT, LOL.

Then why didn't Castiel tell him to ditch that crappy trenchcoat, LOL? He'd fit right in with the other angels in the suit.

OMG HDU THE TRENCH COAT IS HIS FINEST ASSET! Perhaps Castiel didn't want to fit in with the rest? He's that little rut of an angel of the pack, little nerdy angel boy, always some kind of rebel even before he realized he was. ;p

[silverusagi]

I guess in season 4, all the angels were dressed nicely, but only with the introduction of Zachariah's minions do we get them all in black suits.

And even though Castiel is dressed nicely, I always got the impression that clothes were not something angels paid attention to, that the clothes were just another part of the shell. Like how he never bothers to do up his tie. Angels have more important things to worry about than how their vessel is dressed.

Maybe it's just Zachariah who is a control freak, LOL. Like did you notice in 4.22 that Castiel's tie is done? Zach probably turned to him and said, "fix yourself, you look ridiculous." I can imagine any angels who show up to report to him to get told to change their clothes, LOL.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

And of course, the last person that looked at Dean like that was Cas...so...!

Hee, this is so true too! I loved that little implication just from that scene alone. It's like Dean wasn't even embarrassed in intentionally inquiring that he and Castiel were fucking like bunnies, or that he wanted a piece of Castiel's angel ass. Besides, the eye!sex Castiel was vibrating towards Dean? Oh yeah, you know he wanted to tap that ass hard. ;D

Thank you so much for reading. ♥

[erinrua.livejournal.com]

I would just like to say, in a very calm, reasoned and rational manner ...


EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOLYCRAPOMGBBQ! Did this episode not hit EVERY FREAKIN' BEAT? Hell, I don't even have the kinks of many fans and I was still chortling and snickering like a mad thing. Kripke, Carver, I love you guys with an epic, epic love!

Not to mention this ep is proof that fan service can SO be subtle! Hee!

Every word you said, every blessed word - YES! *grabs your thinky brain and smooches it noisily*

I'm still working on my review. There's so MUCH to say it's too damned hard to brain! ;-)

[erinrua.livejournal.com]

Also: Neither thing implies to me that Dean was infused with any grace or angelicness when he killed Zach. I think it's something in Dean, but I'm not sure what.

I think so, also. It's something intrinsic to Dean. Now, maybe he got souped up a little somewhere along his many instances of being dead. Maybe God has touched both Sam and Dean at some point. Maybe zapping them out of Lucifer's landing zone, away back when, not only cleansed Sam of his demon blood addiction but also tripped some hidden trigger in Dean.

But I do think it's all, pure, American-grown Dean. I just can't imagine, and can't wait to see what that's gonna be. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

not only cleansed Sam of his demon blood addiction but also tripped some hidden trigger in Dean.

That's an interesting inquiry, and you know what? That would make sense, and just like with Sam it has to be self-controlled or at least discovered that hey, this something is inside of you and you need to find it and understand who you are. Not anything provided in prophecy, but I really do firmly believe that how they'll defeat Lucifer and win this war is through themselves, through the strength and power and resilience of humanity. Sam is already working on his self-redeeming qualities, it's time that Dean finds his own self-esteem and understand his strength from within.

I just hope that our predictions and speculations are what is perhaps gonna be revealed, but if they do a deux ex machina that'll just be bullshit.

[rogueslayer452.livejournal.com]

The fact that Kripke and some of the writers know precisely how to appease the fangirls while still sticking with the main story just tickles me so much. They definitely know how to bring forth the fanservice well, it's both subtle yet blatant all at once, if that makes any kind of sense.

I'm still working on my review. There's so MUCH to say it's too damned hard to brain! ;-)

Believe me, I'm still having many thoughts about the episode now. This show can provide many provoking discussions when it wants to. I feel like this is exactly what we needed and should have seen earlier in the season, honestly, but it's here now and with four episodes left I hope it continues this streak. :D